cwheeler

True story. I don't disagree. But I'll still put in the best I can afford...

Cw

C4SDayton

send off a UOA after 12 months and you should have a good idea if you can go to 18-24 months with what you have now.

rmstar

Your are absolutely correct. SN Plus applicable only for engine with Turbo or DFI like mine 997.2

rmstar

I am not sure if Jake and LN engineering are smarter than you and I (and others). I would continue using M1/Motul/LiquiMoly/Amsoil or any of your favorous brand for M96/7 engines. So far, no oil company has published any SCIENTIFIC evidence to prove that one is better than others, they can't. The reason I started this thread is the new 2018 SN Plus certification for Turbo/DFI engine like mine 997.2 where LSPI may occur. As I pointed out, even company claim their oil can protect engine from LSPI, does their LSPI protection last until the next oil change? Where is the publish result? I would like to believe their claim but also want oil company to verify in a scientific method to support their claim.
So far, I can only find few company besides DI40 that offer 0W40 or 5W40 with LSPI protection.
HKS: https://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/produ...sro/index.html
Amsoil: https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...tic-motor-oil/

ADias

I was curious... how does a motor oil stop/eliminate/mitigate LSPI? LSPI is a combustion chamber phenomenon, where there should not be any oil. Looked in the NHK link above and they say that their oil 'protects' the engine against the effects of LSPI, I guess seeping up through the piston rings. What happens if an engine is tight and does not consume oil? In any case, being a protectant, not a remedy, the best is to avoid LSPI conditions, if you can, to begin with.

I checked the M1 site and could not find either 0W40 or 5W40 with SN+ certification. BTW... I recall years ago that anything as new as API SN was anathema as an oil choice in the forum's oil wars...

rmstar

It's a million dollar question that oil company still try to figure it out:-). Base on my few years of taking organic chemistry, let's try this for our entertainment shall we :-)
Facts:
1) There will still be a small droplet or micronmeter thin layer of oil/detergent in the chamber as there is noway the piston ring can rid of 100% oil.
2) Possible mechanisms that promote LSPI: a) Oil droplet entering the combustion chamber from a crevice between the piston and cylinder wall. b) Gas-phase unburned hydrocarbons. c) Solid particulates. d) The presence of favorable thermodynamic conditions. AND e) Fuel composition.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...16236118308858

We need to know the basis of gasoline, then apply chemistry knowledge, trial and error, and luck to get an acceptable result.
Pay attention to this paragraph in below article: "the polar groups in the detergent attach themselves to metal surfaces and to polar deposits on these surfaces."
http://www.chemistryexplained.com/Fe-Ge/Gasoline.html

Base on Lubrisol test: A total of four oils were tested: a baseline oil – all calcium detergent system (poor LSPI performance); Formulating solution 1 – calcium is reduced and magnesium is added; Formulating solution 2 – molybdenum dialkyldithiocarbamate (MoDTC) is added; and finally Formulating solution 3 – the addition of titanium. Focus on Calcium and Magnesium solution as they show less chance of LSPI occur until next oil change. The new Ca-Mg-Detergent-CxHy emulsion might help reduce c) Solid particulates case only.
Why is it fixing c) Solid particulates, proven significant? "Soot reduces the effectiveness of anti-wear additives and its effect on wear depends upon the characteristics of the particles and agglomerates of soot. Abrasive wear occurs and wear scar width closely matches the primary particle size "
Sound very simple right :-) We need a Chemist/Petro engineer to explain more on this.
This is why I still don't believe there is single solution that can eliminate LSPI. Use API SN Plus certified oil to reduce chances for LSPI to occur, Yes.

Easy said than done. It's just too much fun when we floor our gas pedal while cruising at 2000 rpm :-)

swingwing

AMSOIL European Car Formula 5W-40, factory approved for A40.

Oil analysis after 4k miles, 40k miles on engine.
I think this all boils down to using A40-approved oils changed on whatever interval you deem necessary, then monitor with UOA. I drive mine about 5,000 miles a year and doubt it'll see track time. I've used AMSOIL in all my cars for over twenty years so that's my choice.

Fahrer

The literature refers to LSPI events occurring from low engine speeds ( at or below 2K rpms) and very high loads. In addition, it appears the octane rating does not have an impact of LSPI events but does have an impact in reducing "Superknock" events. So, to minimize damage from this phenomenon one should avoid flooring the gas pedal at 2K ( or lower) rpm while the trans is in a fixed gear and be sure to use adequate octane gasoline? FYI, I have a 2008 C2S ( non-turbo and port injected) . Due to the port injection it has better fuel/air mixing but my owner's manual still says not to lug this non-turbo the engine at 2K rpm in high gear.

Charles Navarro

Excellent deduction. I'm working on an LSPI article for an upcoming LN newsletter and this is going to be one of my recommendations. There is a very specific speed and load area where LSPI occurs and it's easy enough to keep our cars out of that zone. Where I am more concerned is with other models like the Cayenne, Macan, and Panamera, all of which can suffer LSPI and in D (without sport mode enabled), operate in this range for maximum fuel economy.

cwheeler

This I so very annoying to me! My Cayenne (diesel) and even more so, my Jetta, love to lug on a cold engine. Teaching my wife how to manual shift; and then actually having her to remember to manually shift.... frustrating.

Cw

Petza914

+1

My Cayenne Turbo, even in sport mode, upshifts to frequently have the RPMS in the 1,600 to 1,800 RPM range - drives me nuts. I would love to have it reprogrammed where it would never upshift if the revs would end up below 2,000 after the change. I've gotten in the habit of pressing the Tip - button right before accelerating to make it downshift and put the RPMs where they need to be. Do the same thing on the highway when running along and then accelerating to a pass - bump the - for the shift to 5th, then punch it.

I am actually going to install Mercedes paddle shifters onto the Cayenne steering wheel, replacing the silly illumination switches on the back of the wheel. Wheel control lights will be on when the headlights are on, and off when they're off. Left paddle will be downshift and right paddle will be upshift - Tip buttons will remain, but won't ever really be used and I'll drive the Cayenne in full manual mode most of the time once the shifting methodology is better (paddles).

Christian Stark

ADias

AFAIC any good A40 oil is fine, as well as factory filter and oil/filter changes 5000 miles or 12 months, whichever is less, and sooner if mostly driven in stop-and-go traffic.

Lugging? That is under driver control. Do not drive in SC Normal in D at 1500 RPM.

The ECU cannot be programmed to wake up the car in SC Sport and PASM normal but the driver can... Get in the car, start the engine push SC Sport and push PASM to off. Done!

And... most of all let the engine warm up fully and even then push the throttle, do not slam it as an on/off button.

rmstar

Not the A-40 that help to reduce LSPI. You picked the right oil AMSOIL that happen to have addictive metal Ca/Mg (Ca 2140 ppm high?) and (Mg 15 ppm low?) in the oil which proven to help reduce LSPI. A40 is very specific to Porsche. If you compare Amsoil to Mobile1 0W40, M1 also A-40, but not listed on LSPI approve list. I think I found my oil: AMSOIL Thanks for posting the test result.

Petza914

The Amsoil UOA posted is pretty low on Zinc and Phosphorous content, and pretty high on Calcium, which I believe was mentioned earlier in this thread to be a detergent that was an abrasive with respect to LSPI.

Driven DI40 is the right choice (IMO) for the DFI engines and why I just ordered a case for my DFI Cayenne.