How do you check a 997.2 for bore scoring?
02-11-2019, 03:22 PM
#31
Based on my build sheet, my car was made in 12/2008 so not sure if that is a factor for 997.2 as it was an early 2009 car. The previous owner care for warm up / cool down is unknown for me and being a cold climate car could be a factor. Though I'm **** about this with the new engine.
I have also been hearing more frequent oil changes than the minimum annual / 5K oil change. So I am planning to do an oil change every 6 months as this can be a small cost to pay that may yield a higher lifetime down the road. I seem to recall Pete/Petza advocating this as well for his fleet.
I'm also considering the Blackstone analysis for every oil change. Seeing Pete's spreadsheet has me thinking this is right up my alley for being a documentation and trend analysis nerd....
I have also been hearing more frequent oil changes than the minimum annual / 5K oil change. So I am planning to do an oil change every 6 months as this can be a small cost to pay that may yield a higher lifetime down the road. I seem to recall Pete/Petza advocating this as well for his fleet.
I'm also considering the Blackstone analysis for every oil change. Seeing Pete's spreadsheet has me thinking this is right up my alley for being a documentation and trend analysis nerd....
02-11-2019, 03:45 PM
#32
What I am interested in finding out; is the occurrence of bore scoring in the 997.2 the result of issues in the design and production of the motors by Porsche or is bore scoring the result of driver practices and other circumstances that an engine is subjected to after it is purchased new from a dealer. Air cooled Porsche engines are generally described as "bullet proof". Buyers generally have no qualms about buying high mileage air cooled cars. In my opinion, the engines in 1999 to 2008 cars are certainly not "bullet proof", excepting Mezgers. So might there be bad batches of pistons going into some .2s or variations in the coating process for the pistons? The cylinder bores supposedly do not wear out, The coating of pistons with a tough, friction reducing, wear resistant silicone compound is fairly old and common technology. Engine design and manufacture is Porsche's forte. They build racing engines!!!. So even if an owner of one of these cars doesn't maintain his car properly and tends to run the Beejesus out of it I would hope that the engine isn't so delicate as to develop scored bores. I am tending to suspect that the bore scoring problem is due to the design and production of these motors and to a lesser degree the fault of owners practices or air temps. I suppose we will eventually find out.
02-11-2019, 05:15 PM
#33
Racer
Probably the best use of OA is to gain insight as to what is actually happening with the oil itself. How are its protective properties holding up? Should you be changing it sooner? How is your current oil behaving compared to another oil you may have tried? Etc. Indications of major engine problems will always show up a little late, but they do show up.
02-11-2019, 05:25 PM
#34
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Based on my build sheet, my car was made in 12/2008 so not sure if that is a factor for 997.2 as it was an early 2009 car. The previous owner care for warm up / cool down is unknown for me and being a cold climate car could be a factor. Though I'm **** about this with the new engine.
I have also been hearing more frequent oil changes than the minimum annual / 5K oil change. So I am planning to do an oil change every 6 months as this can be a small cost to pay that may yield a higher lifetime down the road. I seem to recall Pete/Petza advocating this as well for his fleet.
I'm also considering the Blackstone analysis for every oil change. Seeing Pete's spreadsheet has me thinking this is right up my alley for being a documentation and trend analysis nerd....
I have also been hearing more frequent oil changes than the minimum annual / 5K oil change. So I am planning to do an oil change every 6 months as this can be a small cost to pay that may yield a higher lifetime down the road. I seem to recall Pete/Petza advocating this as well for his fleet.
I'm also considering the Blackstone analysis for every oil change. Seeing Pete's spreadsheet has me thinking this is right up my alley for being a documentation and trend analysis nerd....
02-11-2019, 09:06 PM
#35
Racing engines get rebuilt after so many hours of use or a failure. Plenty of manufacturers have built high performance unreliable engines over the years. I think owner factors obviously contribute since failure is more common in cold temps. Not properly warming up cars should contribute something, and plenty of people do not seem to warm up their cars of all types based on what I see driving everyday. As far as air cooled Porsche engines being bullet proof, I would disagree to the extent that alot of 70s and 80s Porsche engines get $10-20k rebuilds around 100k miles, some many more and plenty less than that and depending on whether NA or Turbo, the later being much more expensive. Maybe I am wrong, but air cooled owners seem to take those engine out services in greater stride
02-11-2019, 09:33 PM
#36
Drifting
Coolant pinning a Mezger shouldn't cost anywhere close to $12k. It's like a $3k job at most indies.
02-11-2019, 09:46 PM
#37
IDK what else he did while the engine was out and can’t comment on what an Indy typically charges, I just know what he paid because he wanted to grab the receipt to prove to PCA he had it done. Cost aside I guess my point was everything has problems and sometimes you take every precaution you can and the unexpected happens.
02-11-2019, 09:47 PM
#38
Former Vendor
Leakdown and compression tests are virtually worthless wastes of time when dealing with bore scoring. Often the excess oil in the cylinders will seal the cylinders up well enough to pass these tests... The only exception to this is a specialized “running compression test” where the engine is ran to test each cylinder, with the fuel injector on the respective cylinder deatctivated. With this test you are not looking for a data point value, but rather how the gauge of the tester responds to idle speed, acceleration, and deceleration. This is not a test that is easy to perform, as it takes experience to note the behavioral traits and know whats questionable.
Don’t even bother with the leakdown and compression testing, its just a waste of money.
As my video series on bore scoring is released weekly we are getting closer and closer to the video where l show you how to find a scored bore with a 5mm allen wrench, a spark plug socket, and a 32.00 bore scope from Amazon. The focus now is on the .1 engine, but later in the spring l plan to do a .2 engine, as the procedures are vastly different.
Most PPI inspectors approach these cars like they have no problems, so they don;t know where to look. In an hour or less l can usually find a problem that they’ve overlooked. l look at the engine objectively, like there’s a problem and l just have to find it. l treat a PPI like a pre- flight inspection, and thats the key.
Don’t even bother with the leakdown and compression testing, its just a waste of money.
As my video series on bore scoring is released weekly we are getting closer and closer to the video where l show you how to find a scored bore with a 5mm allen wrench, a spark plug socket, and a 32.00 bore scope from Amazon. The focus now is on the .1 engine, but later in the spring l plan to do a .2 engine, as the procedures are vastly different.
Most PPI inspectors approach these cars like they have no problems, so they don;t know where to look. In an hour or less l can usually find a problem that they’ve overlooked. l look at the engine objectively, like there’s a problem and l just have to find it. l treat a PPI like a pre- flight inspection, and thats the key.
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EdValdez (02-08-2020)
02-11-2019, 10:42 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Leakdown and compression tests are virtually worthless wastes of time when dealing with bore scoring. Often the excess oil in the cylinders will seal the cylinders up well enough to pass these tests... The only exception to this is a specialized “running compression test” where the engine is ran to test each cylinder, with the fuel injector on the respective cylinder deatctivated. With this test you are not looking for a data point value, but rather how the gauge of the tester responds to idle speed, acceleration, and deceleration. This is not a test that is easy to perform, as it takes experience to note the behavioral traits and know whats questionable.
Don’t even bother with the leakdown and compression testing, its just a waste of money.
As my video series on bore scoring is released weekly we are getting closer and closer to the video where l show you how to find a scored bore with a 5mm allen wrench, a spark plug socket, and a 32.00 bore scope from Amazon. The focus now is on the .1 engine, but later in the spring l plan to do a .2 engine, as the procedures are vastly different.
Most PPI inspectors approach these cars like they have no problems, so they don;t know where to look. In an hour or less l can usually find a problem that they’ve overlooked. l look at the engine objectively, like there’s a problem and l just have to find it. l treat a PPI like a pre- flight inspection, and thats the key.
Don’t even bother with the leakdown and compression testing, its just a waste of money.
As my video series on bore scoring is released weekly we are getting closer and closer to the video where l show you how to find a scored bore with a 5mm allen wrench, a spark plug socket, and a 32.00 bore scope from Amazon. The focus now is on the .1 engine, but later in the spring l plan to do a .2 engine, as the procedures are vastly different.
Most PPI inspectors approach these cars like they have no problems, so they don;t know where to look. In an hour or less l can usually find a problem that they’ve overlooked. l look at the engine objectively, like there’s a problem and l just have to find it. l treat a PPI like a pre- flight inspection, and thats the key.
Is there something there or is it just a strange coincidence? His also showed oil in the cylinder also.
Also besides a borescope being mandatory, is there anything else one should insist on being done for a 997.2 engine side of a PPI?
Thanks again.
02-11-2019, 11:39 PM
#40
Former Vendor
#1 has been the more prominent in the last 3-4 of these that we have seen..
This most recent one of Bronz' is a horse of a different color, though. All of us here, as well as charles at LN saw the same traits before we even spoke to each other.
I will know more in a week or so, but we are all thinking the same thing on this one.
Any PPI should include dropping the sump, and looking for debris.
This most recent one of Bronz' is a horse of a different color, though. All of us here, as well as charles at LN saw the same traits before we even spoke to each other.
I will know more in a week or so, but we are all thinking the same thing on this one.
Any PPI should include dropping the sump, and looking for debris.
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EdValdez (02-08-2020)
02-12-2019, 12:02 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
I can get a drive train warranty on my 09 C2S that won't break the bank. My concern is they would do everything possible to disallow any claim as a pre-existing condition, rather than pay for what a 997.2 engine costs to repair.
02-12-2019, 12:53 AM
#42
Former Vendor
Look into a LaSalle Warranty. We have done all their Porsche claims for a few years, and I have never seen the owner turn anyone down. He is a straight shooter that handles most of the business himself. I have seen them be more than fair with claims. they are the ONLY warranty company I will accept work from.
02-12-2019, 04:50 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
#1 has been the more prominent in the last 3-4 of these that we have seen..
This most recent one of Bronz' is a horse of a different color, though. All of us here, as well as charles at LN saw the same traits before we even spoke to each other.
I will know more in a week or so, but we are all thinking the same thing on this one.
Any PPI should include dropping the sump, and looking for debris.
This most recent one of Bronz' is a horse of a different color, though. All of us here, as well as charles at LN saw the same traits before we even spoke to each other.
I will know more in a week or so, but we are all thinking the same thing on this one.
Any PPI should include dropping the sump, and looking for debris.
09-06-2019, 11:23 PM
#45
Would someone kindly answer the OP’s original question: how do you bore scope a 997.2 from the sump side? What needs to come off to access the cylinders from the bottom (besides the sump cover)?
