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Buying 997.2 Sight-Unseen

 
Old 02-08-2019, 11:46 AM
  #46  
Tcc1999
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Originally Posted by Fined View Post
No such thing as a great deal on a Porsche sports car. If it truly is priced far below average for mileage and year... there are reasons. There are always reasons. Being able to buy a "great deal" is possible, but in due time it will be revealed why it is not in fact a great deal. whether the buyer acknowledges these deficits or not.
You may think so, but I disagree (and there is nothing wrong with cynicism but it doesn’t always prevail). When I sold my SY ‘08 C2S (manual) it was a great deal for the buyer. The car was 2.5 years old with 18K miles, a few minor options, little wear and tracked twice. The reason it was a great deal is because it was coming off lease and I wanted a 997 GTS before the 991s were the only game in town. Sold it for lease buyout which was $8 to $10 thousand less than the going rate. Why? I dunno’ paying it forward maybe. I’ ve been very fortunate if not just plain lucky, financially, so I guess I wanted to pass some of that along. Anyway, it must have been a good deal because for a SY car, which people say is hard to sell, I had six pretty firm offers (a couple even above what I was asking but I did not care about profit). After a few conversations and total disclosure, several pictures, and a PPI sold it to the first one who responded at the asking price; communicated with him a few times afterwards, and as far as I know he was very happy with the deal, and I was content to have done a good turn and broken even. In the end, it all depends on the seller, so yes, being a little skeptical is good, but there are people out there selling cars who do not want to stick it to a buyer.
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:37 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Dymag View Post
Do yourself a favor and have a third party PPI done on the car. If the results are good, and you are still interested in the car; fly out and put eyes on it. I bought a car from Porsche Plano, and decided not to have a PPI because the car came with a CPO and was being sold by a Porsche Dealer . . . . . . the car was NOT truly inspected by the dealer . The service department "pencil whipped" the inspection pages, and the salesperson lied about the car's condition. The car had several significant flaws, and 2 glaring safety issues. Had I had the PPI and looked at the car in person, I would have avoided a poor purchase. I had the car delivered to me 1,000 miles away, so . . . . . lessons learned; always have a PPI and put eyes on the car prior to a purchase.

My second Porsche, PPI and live viewing ensured a Happy Purchase - well worth the plane ticket to view the vehicle.

These steps will help ensure that you will love your new Porsche.

Enjoy -
I am a lurker on here doing my research for a future purchase. I have determined that I won’t be able to limit my search geographically, so this may be a future issue for me. I have purchased a car sight unseen (CPO Audi S6 in MD and I live in NJ). It was an easy process- purchase, trade-in, etc. However, if a Porsche is being sold by a Porsche dealer, would you recommend based on your post getting an independent shop that knows Porsches to do a PPI on a 997 sitting on a Porsche dealer lot? Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:32 PM
  #48  
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I've bought my last four cars sight-unseen because I was looking for cars uncommon to MN. The best car, with the worst buying experience, was the 2008 997.1 turbo cab I bought in January of 2018 from a private party, although I did hedge my bets by not paying in full until I saw the car. The owners (who turned out to be very nice when I finally met them in person to finalize the deal) listed their low-mileage car with plates from another state (they'd just moved), a stated color that did not match the build sheet (it's Atlas Grey--they called it blue, and it does have a blue cast), and photos from the dealer they'd bought the car from several years before (no time to take new pics). When I inquired, because the price was good, there were numerous delays in communication and the new photos they sent were taken with a cell phone. They also raised the price it was advertised for by $3K on the advertising site, because of the numerous inquiries, but told me I could have it at the original price as I had inquired first. Despite my misgivings, I sent a deposit contingent on a PPI by a well-regarded local indie shop--the local dealers wouldn't do it. After another delay, the PPI came back, most importantly verifying that the car existed, albeit with a few minor issues (some overrevs in bands 1, 2 and 3, scraped air dam, slight wear near top hinges), but no leaks, damage, or other deal-breakers. The sellers wanted to meet in person to conclude the sale; two weeks later I finally saw the car and it was even better than it looked in pictures. Everything worked, there were no dings, and it ran perfectly. I gave them a cashier's check; they gave me the executed title, and agreed to store the car for a couple of weeks until we returned home to await the carrier, which delivered on time and without damage. Results of the three others were slightly mixed: a 3 year-old E350 MB from a major East Coast dealer was immaculate; the Z3M roadster off eBay (private party) had a discolored and damaged rear wheel and non-functioning AC, neither of which was disclosed prior to my purchase, but the selling price was good enough that I could overlook those issues; and the 2014 QX-80 I bought last year from a chain dealer in Denver is basically excellent, although the paint looks like someone polished it with a Brillo pad. Morals: Get a PPI; look at the car before paying in full.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:53 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Four Ring Circus View Post


I am a lurker on here doing my research for a future purchase. I have determined that I won’t be able to limit my search geographically, so this may be a future issue for me. I have purchased a car sight unseen (CPO Audi S6 in MD and I live in NJ). It was an easy process- purchase, trade-in, etc. However, if a Porsche is being sold by a Porsche dealer, would you recommend based on your post getting an independent shop that knows Porsches to do a PPI on a 997 sitting on a Porsche dealer lot? Thanks.
Hello, Yes! I would not consider the purchase without an independent Porsche Shop performing a PPI. You will need to reach out, and/or do a google search for a Porsche shop near the area that the potential car is at presently. You would pay for the PPI; you are the customer and the PPI results go to you. Dealer will take the car to the Indy shop. Most any dealer will completely understand, and expect the PPI request. I would also HIGHLY recommend flying/traveling to look at the car yourself. I took these steps on my second Porsche purchase, and the experience was actually very enjoyable - as it should be.

PS - Stay Away from Porsche of Plano.
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:19 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Carerra View Post
2010 Carrera S 6M 140K Miles

I bought mine site from a dealer 2 states over. I closely considered about 3 others before I pulled the trigger.

You (not the dealer/owner) REALLY NEED to pick an independent garage that knows 911's to do an inspection. Do not be bashful about expecting this to be done, but you will have to pay for it. Do not buy a used 911 without an inspection. Mine needed about $1,600 worth of work that the dealer agreed to pay for. I flushed out a couple of 997.1's with various big problems.

I am happy with mine.

BTW, if this is your first 911, not all mechanics are qualified for this. Make sure they know Porsches. Also, ask them to check the over-revs. (Knock on Wood) the 997.2 has been a great car. With mine being high mileage, I think I am breaking ground a lot in this forum. Which goes to say, not much breaks on these engines if they are maintained. But mine is old and I am learning how to do much of the work myself, so I am here not infrequently.

I daily drive mine, putting on 48k miles in less than three years. Also, I think I could sell mine (based on AutoTrader) for very close to what I paid for it. Which tells me that the prices are starting to rise on the 997.2 as people understand what a gem it is.

It is a good car, but still a Porsche. This week I paid to get a new clutch and flywheel - gulp.
Thanks all. I would definitely get an independent shop to perform a PPI, possibly including a scope and compression test depending on the cost and the possibility of splitting the cost if it involved any maintenance (e.g., new plugs).

As people have said, one of the big questions is how well it was maintained. Per the carfax, the first owner had it regularly serviced at a Porsche dealer. However, the carfax does not indicate any maintenance performed by the second (current) owner. As mentioned earlier, the seller says that he did the oil changes, etc. himself, which my understanding is relatively easy on these cars.
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:21 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Vince Honorato View Post
Bought mine sight unseen and was pleasantly surprised as it was in better condition than pictures could do it justice.
Saw mine, tracked it for a while at dealership 300 miles away. It was the exact spec and optioned well. While searching, the dealer had dropped the price (bough in dead of winter) so I secured the financing.

Called the dealer, they agree to take to an Independent Porsche shop for a PPI. Talked with the PPI shop about the car and they did a engine DME report, full once over and said it was good to go.
The same say I put down a deposit with the dealership. The next week drove down and it picked it up.
Granted here are the things I did prior to the sight unseen purchase:

Researched the VIN.
Checked the CARFAX.
Called previous dealership from it about service history.
Pulled the build sheet from Vinanalytics and bumped the options to the ad/pictures of the car.
Had a PPI done with a few points of interest (clutch/leaks/DME)

With everything sound, I pulled the trigger and very happy Porsche owner now!
Thanks. I've checked the CARFAX and it is clean, with the exception of no recorded maintenance done by the second owner.

What do you mean by "researching the VIN"? Are you referring to checking for recalls? Previous (attempted) sales of the car?
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:39 PM
  #52  
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We have bought 4 P-cars sight unseen. All checked out. I have sold 4 cars sight unseen: all were happy new owners. Of course, I did my homework first, and had someone independent verify the condition (PPI, including cosmetics). 2 were purchased here, and 2 were purchased over on the PCA classifieds. One was a "slight" disappointment: there was a decent scratch in the rear quarter panel that was not noted. The other 3 exceeded expectations. Porsche enthusiasts tend to take care of their cars, and if they were used as more of a DD or track car, they are usually pretty forthcoming.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car sight unseen, especially from a "verified" seller. This is a small community, and if the car is well known, someone can likely vouch for the condition. If you buy a car here, you can see if they sold anything in the past and what the feedback was. Reputation goes a long way.

That doesn't mean you can't get "screwed" but you certainly can put the odds in your favor. Just do your homework.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:40 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Dymag View Post
Hello, Yes! I would not consider the purchase without an independent Porsche Shop performing a PPI. You will need to reach out, and/or do a google search for a Porsche shop near the area that the potential car is at presently. You would pay for the PPI; you are the customer and the PPI results go to you. Dealer will take the car to the Indy shop. Most any dealer will completely understand, and expect the PPI request. I would also HIGHLY recommend flying/traveling to look at the car yourself. I took these steps on my second Porsche purchase, and the experience was actually very enjoyable - as it should be.

PS - Stay Away from Porsche of Plano.
Stay far far away from Porsche Plano! What a joke.

I had a solid PPI done at Fix n'Go in Plano. They diagnosed several small issues on a 997.1, which the seller declined to repair. I passed on the car!
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:06 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by raidersfan View Post
We have bought 4 P-cars sight unseen. All checked out. I have sold 4 cars sight unseen: all were happy new owners. Of course, I did my homework first, and had someone independent verify the condition (PPI, including cosmetics). 2 were purchased here, and 2 were purchased over on the PCA classifieds. One was a "slight" disappointment: there was a decent scratch in the rear quarter panel that was not noted. The other 3 exceeded expectations. Porsche enthusiasts tend to take care of their cars, and if they were used as more of a DD or track car, they are usually pretty forthcoming.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a car sight unseen, especially from a "verified" seller. This is a small community, and if the car is well known, someone can likely vouch for the condition. If you buy a car here, you can see if they sold anything in the past and what the feedback was. Reputation goes a long way.

That doesn't mean you can't get "screwed" but you certainly can put the odds in your favor. Just do your homework.

Depends on what "verified seller" means. If it means one of the largest volume Porsche dealers in the nation then to me it means nothing. The second largest volume Porsche dealer in the nation has the dubious honor of pulling off the dirtiest sight unseen, no PPI CPO deal ever heard of on this forum, at least over the last decade. So I'm not sure there's such a thing as a "verified seller". The seller, no matter who (some exceptions I'm sure) will of course praise what he/she is selling so the only sensible way of buying sight unseen is with a PPI by a "verified PPI" entity. I'll buy any car sight unseen as long as I can find a shop with a solid reputation for honesty and integrity doing the PPI.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:03 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by sandwedge View Post
Depends on what "verified seller" means. If it means one of the largest volume Porsche dealers in the nation then to me it means nothing. The second largest volume Porsche dealer in the nation has the dubious honor of pulling off the dirtiest sight unseen, no PPI CPO deal ever heard of on this forum, at least over the last decade. So I'm not sure there's such a thing as a "verified seller". The seller, no matter who (some exceptions I'm sure) will of course praise what he/she is selling so the only sensible way of buying sight unseen is with a PPI by a "verified PPI" entity. I'll buy any car sight unseen as long as I can find a shop with a solid reputation for honesty and integrity doing the PPI.
Agree. A car being CPO'd provides some level of comfort for the mechanical stuff but cosmetic condition (which is a big deal to most of us) can be loosely interpreted by the dealer. Need independent eyes.

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Old 02-10-2019, 12:57 PM
  #56  
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Thanks for all the feedback! Mark generously looked at the car and all looks good. Besides what I noted above, there are a fair number of rock chips on the hood and front bumper, but the car otherwise looks solid.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:20 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by jazz11man1 View Post
Thanks for all the feedback! Mark generously looked at the car and all looks good. Besides what I noted above, there are a fair number of rock chips on the hood and front bumper, but the car otherwise looks solid.
My pleasure to help a fellow Rennlister. I assume your next step is a formal PPI.
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Old 02-11-2019, 05:29 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by mjsporsche View Post
Agree. A car being CPO'd provides some level of comfort for the mechanical stuff but cosmetic condition (which is a big deal to most of us) can be loosely interpreted by the dealer. Need independent eyes.

Which is why maybe they should exclude this part of the bragging about the CPO inspection process:

We’re proud of our technicians, and no-one knows a Porsche better than them. Rigorous mechanical and bodywork standards must be met by every Porsche Approved vehicle
https://www.porsche.com/usa/approved...tures/quality/

Last edited by sandwedge; 02-11-2019 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:17 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by mjsporsche View Post
My pleasure to help a fellow Rennlister. I assume your next step is a formal PPI.
Indeed!
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