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Thoughts on a rebuilt 997.1S

Old 01-11-2019, 08:50 PM
  #31  
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I AM IN ORANGE COUNTY AND NEWPORT IS 25 MINUTES AWAY. I WOULDN'T GO LOOK AT THIS CAR FOR ANYONE I LIKED IF YOU GAVE ME A GT2RS TO GET THERE.
RUN VERY FAR AND VERY FAST FROM THIS ONE. I LOVE AMATEUR CAR GUYS! I DON'T EVEN WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE DIDN'T ADDRESS WHEN REBUILDING THIS ONE. THIS IS A PARTS CAR TO ME, AND NOT WORTH ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHAT A REAL CAR IS WORTH. I WOULD GIVE THE GUY WHATEVER I COULD GET FOR THE ENGINE, AND THAT'S ABOUT ALL.
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:06 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Petza914 View Post
Find a clean title, well-cared for 997 to start your ownership experience, not this basket-case. Ever heard the saying "the most expensive Porsche is the cheapest to buy".
I have a question for you as I value your opinion. Most people prefer driving a standard as they say it's more fun and "engaging". Have you driven a tiptronic and find it to be just as fun?
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:57 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Vincent713 View Post
I have a question for you as I value your opinion. Most people prefer driving a standard as they say it's more fun and "engaging". Have you driven a tiptronic and find it to be just as fun?
IMO, Tiptronic is the wrong transmission for a 997. This may offend some Tip owners, but my view is that there is only one reason someone buys a 997.1 with Tiptronic and it's because they can't afford a 997. 2 with PDK. If you want a 2 pedal transmission in a 997 for whatever reason (traffic, medical issues, etc) the PDK is the only one to have.

I am in the camp of owning 3 pedal cars for as long as I'm able to drive them. My Cayenne Turbo S is a Tip and I almost bought the GTS model just so I could get it with a MT, but after driving both and for how we use the car, which is primarily for family vacations, the extra 150 HP (now 250 HP with my mods and tune) won out over the joys of manual shifting. I'm actually going to install paddles onto the wheel so I can drive it in manual mode all the time, but the transmission is slow to shift, even in sport mode and in automatic mode runs to too high a gear much to early. I'm constantly bumping the - button once or twice to put the revs back into the 2,200 to 2,500 rpm range so I don't have to wait for the slow automatic downshift when I want to go. The little thumb buttons on the wheel for shifting manually are a pain, thus the reason for the addition of the paddles, to make it all it can be. Yes, I coukd use the shift lever itself, but Porsche set the Tiptronic up the reverse of everyone else. Usually with a semi-automatic gearbox, when you're braking and the weight is shifting forward, moving the shifter lever in the same forward direction selects a lower gear (3rd to 2nd) and when accelerating and forces are pushing you back, moving the lever in that direction selects a higher gear (3rd to 4th), but the Tip is setup where forward selects a higher gear and backward a lower gear so not at all intuitive. The paddles will be much better with - on the left and + on the right.

If all someone can afford is a 997.1, and needs a semi-automatic transmission, then having a 997 with Tip is certainly better than not having.a 997 at all, but a Carrera S with Tip is slower 0-60 than a base Carrera with a MT (you can look up the times). The only model faster with a tip is the TT because the car can stay on boost during the shift (don't have to release the throttle to push in a clutch), but it wouldn't be my choice in a 997 TT either.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:57 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Petza914 View Post
IMO, Tiptronic is the wrong transmission for a 997. This may offend some Tip owners, but my view is that there is only one reason someone buys a 997.1 with Tiptronic and it's because they can't afford a 997. 2 with PDK. If you want a 2 pedal transmission in a 997 for whatever reason (traffic, medical issues, etc) the PDK is the only one to have.

I am in the camp of owning 3 pedal cars for as long as I'm able to drive them. My Cayenne Turbo S is a Tip and I almost bought the GTS model just so I could get it with a MT, but after driving both and for how we use the car, which is primarily for family vacations, the extra 150 HP (now 250 HP with my mods and tune) won out over the joys of manual shifting. I'm actually going to install paddles onto the wheel so I can drive it in manual mode all the time, but the transmission is slow to shift, even in sport mode and in automatic mode runs to too high a gear much to early. I'm constantly bumping the - button once or twice to put the revs back into the 2,200 to 2,500 rpm range so I don't have to wait for the slow automatic downshift when I want to go. The little thumb buttons on the wheel for shifting manually are a pain, thus the reason for the addition of the paddles, to make it all it can be. Yes, I coukd use the shift lever itself, but Porsche set the Tiptronic up the reverse of everyone else. Usually with a semi-automatic gearbox, when you're braking and the weight is shifting forward, moving the shifter lever in the same forward direction selects a lower gear (3rd to 2nd) and when accelerating and forces are pushing you back, moving the lever in that direction selects a higher gear (3rd to 4th), but the Tip is setup where forward selects a higher gear and backward a lower gear so not at all intuitive. The paddles will be much better with - on the left and + on the right.

If all someone can afford is a 997.1, and needs a semi-automatic transmission, then having a 997 with Tip is certainly better than not having.a 997 at all, but a Carrera S with Tip is slower 0-60 than a base Carrera with a MT (you can look up the times). The only model faster with a tip is the TT because the car can stay on boost during the shift (don't have to release the throttle to push in a clutch), but it wouldn't be my choice in a 997 TT either.
Thank you for your feedback. I've seen about 5 997.2 ranging from $39 - 42K with decent mileage in the current market. These cars seem to be going down in prices but do you really think they are worth the extra $10-15K? I'm not looking to race or go to the tracks but the tiptronics I've tested I actually had fun driving it. The paddle gear shifting on my Mercedes is even slower than the 911. It won't be my daily driver so maybe I'll join the 6sp manual camp.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:05 AM
  #35  
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BlahBlahBlah...it's not even about being offended but rather about the fact that pretty much nobody who's gonna buy a 997 Tiptronic cares and won't race the car but barely spirit drive the thing less than 5% of the time, the remaining 95% will be about enjoying owning and driving a Porsche 911. As far as the choice of 997 because of affordability it's so obvious, give everyone in here a million bucks and we would all spec and order a 992 immediately.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:27 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Vincent713 View Post
Thank you for your feedback. I've seen about 5 997.2 ranging from $39 - 42K with decent mileage in the current market. These cars seem to be going down in prices but do you really think they are worth the extra $10-15K? I'm not looking to race or go to the tracks but the tiptronics I've tested I actually had fun driving it. The paddle gear shifting on my Mercedes is even slower than the 911. It won't be my daily driver so maybe I'll join the 6sp manual camp.
"Worth the extra $10-$15k" is a hard question to answer. Personally, I say no, and one reason why I own two 997.1 cars even though I bought the first in 2012 and the second in 2013, well after the release of the 997.2 and well into the documented failures of the M96 and M97 engines.

The driving experience between the 2 generations is not all that different. If you took the $15k price difference and put that into an investment account the day you bought the car, by the time you had a serious engine failure on a 997.1 (if you ever even did), you'd likely have in that account enough money to have an upgraded 4.0L with Nickies replacement motor built that some would say end up even better than a stock 997.2. In the event you never experience the engine failure, you end up with an investment account with $20k or more in it to use for your next 911 upgrade (should you decide there is an upgrade out there). By the time that investment account reaches $20k, I think 997.1 and 997.2 prices will be even closer together than they are now - maybe a $5k delta, so comparing the 2 scenarious, you buy the 997.2 at $15k more and when you decide to sell it, it's worth $5k more than the 997.1 you would have bought - your $10k in the hole as you move onto your next car. You buy the 997.1 for $15k less and never have a serious engine failure. The investment account matures to $20k during your ownership, but your 997.1 is worth $5k less than the 997.2, so you're $15k ahead when you go to buy your next car - that's a delta of $25k. In the event you do have a serious engine failure in the 997.1 and you do a rebuild, it will run you $25k so you break even.

Of course all of the above is speculation. Maybe 997.2 are worth more than $5k more than the 997.1 you would have bought. Maybe the 997.1 engine fails really early, and you have to take that $15k in the account and add $5k to it, so you end up a little behind.

You can analyze these purchases to death. Find one you like (colors, options, body style) with a good maintenance history, that gets a clean PPI, do less analyzing, and start driving / living. Every day you don't have a 997 is not as good a day as if you did.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:45 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Petza914 View Post
"Worth the extra $10-$15k" is a hard question to answer. Personally, I say no, and one reason why I own two 997.1 cars even though I bought the first in 2012 and the second in 2013, well after the release of the 997.2 and well into the documented failures of the M96 and M97 engines.

The driving experience between the 2 generations is not all that different. If you took the $15k price difference and put that into an investment account the day you bought the car, by the time you had a serious engine failure on a 997.1 (if you ever even did), you'd likely have in that account enough money to have an upgraded 4.0L with Nickies replacement motor built that some would say end up even better than a stock 997.2. In the event you never experience the engine failure, you end up with an investment account with $20k or more in it to use for your next 911 upgrade (should you decide there is an upgrade out there). By the time that investment account reaches $20k, I think 997.1 and 997.2 prices will be even closer together than they are now - maybe a $5k delta, so comparing the 2 scenarious, you buy the 997.2 at $15k more and when you decide to sell it, it's worth $5k more than the 997.1 you would have bought - your $10k in the hole as you move onto your next car. You buy the 997.1 for $15k less and never have a serious engine failure. The investment account matures to $20k during your ownership, but your 997.1 is worth $5k less than the 997.2, so you're $15k ahead when you go to buy your next car - that's a delta of $25k. In the event you do have a serious engine failure in the 997.1 and you do a rebuild, it will run you $25k so you break even.

Of course all of the above is speculation. Maybe 997.2 are worth more than $5k more than the 997.1 you would have bought. Maybe the 997.1 engine fails really early, and you have to take that $15k in the account and add $5k to it, so you end up a little behind.

You can analyze these purchases to death. Find one you like (colors, options, body style) with a good maintenance history, that gets a clean PPI, do less analyzing, and start driving / living. Every day you don't have a 997 is not as good a day as if you did.
Your comment makes a lot of financial sense. My biggest concern is how well will the IMSB on the 997.1 holds up in ten years from now? If it truly can last the life of the car then I would agree, the price gap between 997.1 & .2 will be a lot less than now. But one thing i think is for sure that the 997.2 will be a more sought after car, it will go down in history as the bulletproof 911. That being said I have read some bad cases of the PDK breaking and costing a lot to fix. I recently saw this youtube video about a new IMS solution for the 997.1. Have you seen this or have any thoughts about it? He also talks about his opinion between the 997.1 and .2.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:13 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Vincent713 View Post
I have a question for you as I value your opinion. Most people prefer driving a standard as they say it's more fun and "engaging". Have you driven a tiptronic and find it to be just as fun?
Petzra advise about purchasing the cheapest high end sports cars typically becomes the most/more expensive options. IMO, the tip ruins a 911 unless it is a Turbo which dang near needs the tip (holds boost longer and better gear ratios for Turbo's power curve). I find the pdk with paddle shifters to enhance the driving experience. Paddles and shift speeds give it a race car like feel. Tip cars feel heavy, slow and non responsive if you are accustom to manual and now pdk feel. If coming from a Honda Accord or Camry . . . a 911 with tip may feel great . . .
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:39 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Vincent713 View Post
Your comment makes a lot of financial sense. My biggest concern is how well will the IMSB on the 997.1 holds up in ten years from now? If it truly can last the life of the car then I would agree, the price gap between 997.1 & .2 will be a lot less than now. But one thing i think is for sure that the 997.2 will be a more sought after car, it will go down in history as the bulletproof 911. That being said I have read some bad cases of the PDK breaking and costing a lot to fix. I recently saw this youtube video about a new IMS solution for the 997.1. Have you seen this or have any thoughts about it? He also talks about his opinion between the 997.1 and .2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raxO...okjkurk0h00410
So, here's the problem with that proposed IMS solution... the IMS bearing is a sealed bearing with grease I side and being sealed, there's a bearing seal on both the front side (transmission and bearing flange side) and the backside (the part inside the IMS shaft). Their solution talks about drilling a hole in the backside of the IMS shaft so oil can flow through the shaft and lubricate the bearing, but I can't see how they plan to actually get oil into the bearing past the seal. The better solution for large bearing cars would be to remove the bearing seal from the front / transmission side as has been recommended by Flat 6 and talked about many times here. The bearing actually sits in oil so removing the seal will expose it to plenty of fresh oil for lubrication and it only needs splash lubrication.

All that other solution is going to do is expose the sealed bearing to more oil, which is actually part of the problem. Oil gets past the gease seal and washes the grease out of the bearing, but enough fresh oil doesn't make it into the beating for proper lubrication of it. Removing the front seal completely allows for a constant supply of fresh oil to keep the bearing healthy and lubricated, which their solution won't do because of the seal. If you're going to remove the front seal anyway then there's plenty of fresh oil exposure and you don't need to punch a hole in the rear of your IMS shaft, potentially compromising its integrity or throwing off the balance of it with the addition of their plug.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:59 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Doug H View Post
Petzra advise about purchasing the cheapest high end sports cars typically becomes the most/more expensive options. IMO, the tip ruins a 911 unless it is a Turbo which dang near needs the tip (holds boost longer and better gear ratios for Turbo's power curve). I find the pdk with paddle shifters to enhance the driving experience. Paddles and shift speeds give it a race car like feel. Tip cars feel heavy, slow and non responsive if you are accustom to manual and now pdk feel. If coming from a Honda Accord or Camry . . . a 911 with tip may feel great . . .
I haven't driven a Tiptronic with a Sport mode but I hear it's a different animal. I drove a 997.2 with Sports Chrono PDK and in normal mode it's like driving a Honda. Sport + mode turns it into a beast. Basically you need the Sport mode package on the automatics to make it a more fun driving car IMO.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:42 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Vincent713 View Post
I haven't driven a Tiptronic with a Sport mode but I hear it's a different animal. I drove a 997.2 with Sports Chrono PDK and in normal mode it's like driving a Honda. Sport + mode turns it into a beast. Basically you need the Sport mode package on the automatics to make it a more fun driving car IMO.
Sport mode on a Tiptronic S isn't the same Jekyl & Hyde as Sport or Sport plus on a PDK. The difference isn't as dramatic, but you're correct about needing it to wake up the PDK.
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