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Old 01-06-2019, 06:25 PM
  #136  
ADias
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Originally Posted by andy92782
Already happening. California EV drivers pay a $100 surcharge on their annual registration to make up for lost gasoline tax revenue.
Still heavily subsidized. $100 is a fraction of what the average non-EV driver pays.
Old 01-06-2019, 06:42 PM
  #137  
andy92782
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Originally Posted by ADias
Still heavily subsidized. $100 is a fraction of what the average non-EV driver pays.
Not really. California state gas tax (the part that's supposed to cover infrastructure) is $0.30/gallon. If your car gets 36mpg and you drive 12K miles per year, you'll consume 333 gallons of gas. 333 * $0.30 = $100.
Old 01-06-2019, 07:06 PM
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Austin997.2
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Originally Posted by andy92782
I used to be a hater just like you, but then I came to the realization that this was the only way for an angry white man like me to get a big, fat gobmint handout. F*** it, I'm in!
I like your style!!!
Old 01-06-2019, 07:07 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Slc801
let it all out Austin, you’ll feel better.
I do, my wife's had enough, so I get on here
Old 01-06-2019, 07:32 PM
  #140  
ADias
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The average car on CA roads does not do 30MPG, thus the burden of road maintenance is fundamentally on gas powered cars. In addition everyone subsidizes EV purchases and 'free' EV charging wherever available. Not a level playing field.
Old 01-06-2019, 07:38 PM
  #141  
C4SDayton
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Originally Posted by Slc801


let it all out Austin, you’ll feel better.
Originally Posted by andy92782
I used to be a hater just like you, but then I came to the realization that this was the only way for an angry white man like me to get a big, fat gobmint handout. F*** it, I'm in!
Originally Posted by ADias
Still heavily subsidized. $100 is a fraction of what the average non-EV driver pays.
Partly true. But for Tesla owners, I'd wager most are top 10 percent wage earners, therefore they are contributing toward the 70% of total income taxes the top decile pays.
Old 01-06-2019, 08:06 PM
  #142  
andy92782
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Originally Posted by ADias
The average car on CA roads does not do 30MPG, thus the burden of road maintenance is fundamentally on gas powered cars. In addition everyone subsidizes EV purchases and 'free' EV charging wherever available. Not a level playing field.
If we switch the 36mpg car out for one that gets 24mpg, the annual tax would increase from $100 to $150. Not a ginormous difference. Besides, if you don't like paying your unfair share of gas tax, there's nothing stopping you from driving a more efficient vehicle.

The taxpayer doesn't provide free EV charging. Local to me there are only a handful of free public charging stations. They're run by a company called Volta and they're installed in shopping centers (in my case, the nearby Whole Foods). The retail properties subsidize them as a way of attracting buyers. Certain Tesla drivers get lifetime free charging at Tesla Superchargers but that's subsidized by the Tesla shareholder, not the taxpayer. Tesla doesn't offer this any longer, BTW.
Old 01-06-2019, 08:08 PM
  #143  
ADias
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Please tell me if this is good automotive engineering:


Note (i) the feeble lower structure of the battery pack, (ii) laughable rocker beam strength, (iii) accident prone threading of heavy electrical cabling around sharp metal bends, (iv) battery lack of modularity or serviceability.

No wonder that any little undercarriage scratch or bump causes a fiery inferno.

Wait for the Taycan and witness an EV built right, if you want an EV, that is.
Old 01-06-2019, 08:09 PM
  #144  
Cane94
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Electric cars will be the utility vehicle in household, daily driver, cheap around town transportation and with a potential life of a million miles, totally disposable. The self driving drone that handles the mundane tasks of driving a repeated route. Vanilla car stamped out one after another with little difference ( an electric engine is an electric engine is an electric engine). The Porsche, although I just drove a 18 GTS and was not “blown away” and was no comparison to my 997.2 GT3. The Porsche will offer the unusual in a sea of commonality. Life is becoming a “one off” custom affair and Porsche positions themselves to cater to the small minority who demand the out of the ordinary...they scream “I want something different and special” is what pumps blood through Porsche. One only has to visit a cars and coffee and see the turnout of youngsters, millennials (yes surprising millennials) and the senior set. You don’t see a line of Tesla’s lined up with all ogling over the same car in a different color. Is the ICE going to be a thing of the past, probably not, but I could see 2/3 electric and 1/3 ICE with the 1/3 being “special models” like GT3, GT2, Dodge hellcat, Nissan GTR or any other low production model. I don’t see us hold up in our houses conducting all activity from a iPhone with little human face to face interaction. We are all in trouble if that were to occur including someone losing desire to get behind the wheel of a ICE with throaty exhaust traversing the pacific coast highway. So hold onto those great aircooled/water cooled examples for there will come a time with nostalgic history of our country will demand to have something nobody else does.
Old 01-06-2019, 08:33 PM
  #145  
ADias
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Originally Posted by andy92782
...
The taxpayer doesn't provide free EV charging. Local to me there are only a handful of free public charging stations. They're run by a company called Volta and they're installed in shopping centers (in my case, the nearby Whole Foods). The retail properties subsidize them as a way of attracting buyers. Certain Tesla drivers get lifetime free charging at Tesla Superchargers but that's subsidized by the Tesla shareholder, not the taxpayer. Tesla doesn't offer this any longer, BTW.
Anything 'free' to someone is paid by others. Someone pays Volta so that you can have your free charge; that business passes the cost to all its customers. When businesses offer free charging to employees who do you think ultimately pays for that? I learned long ago that there is no free lunch, except, of course, when true friends meet, and even then when a friend gives me a free lunch, he pays for it.
Old 01-06-2019, 08:53 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by ADias
Anything 'free' to someone is paid by others. Someone pays Volta so that you can have your free charge; that business passes the cost to all its customers. When businesses offer free charging to employees who do you think ultimately pays for that? I learned long ago that there is no free lunch, except, of course, when true friends meet, and even then when a friend gives me a free lunch, he pays for it.
All of those socialists in Cuba get to pay for Fidel's grandson's globetrotting. Socialism works!!! Democratic socialism works even better, because it's like Democratic!!!! Like yeah!!!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vacations.html
Old 01-06-2019, 09:24 PM
  #147  
Fahrer
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Originally Posted by andy92782
Already happening. California EV drivers pay a $100 surcharge on their annual registration to make up for lost gasoline tax revenue.
$100????? That's nothing!
Old 01-06-2019, 09:27 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by andy92782
If we switch the 36mpg car out for one that gets 24mpg, the annual tax would increase from $100 to $150. Not a ginormous difference. Besides, if you don't like paying your unfair share of gas tax, there's nothing stopping you from driving a more efficient vehicle.

The taxpayer doesn't provide free EV charging. Local to me there are only a handful of free public charging stations. They're run by a company called Volta and they're installed in shopping centers (in my case, the nearby Whole Foods). The retail properties subsidize them as a way of attracting buyers. Certain Tesla drivers get lifetime free charging at Tesla Superchargers but that's subsidized by the Tesla shareholder, not the taxpayer. Tesla doesn't offer this any longer, BTW.
Taxpayers are supporting Tesla, as well, through government subsidies.
Old 01-06-2019, 09:33 PM
  #149  
ADias
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I loved Tesla when it started here in Silicon Valley, eons ago, as a an EV 'skunk works' enterprise. It all went down to hell when Elon took it over from its founder, and making it a cult enterprise with all the ills misplaced-cults have.
Old 01-06-2019, 09:35 PM
  #150  
andy92782
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Originally Posted by ADias
Anything 'free' to someone is paid by others. Someone pays Volta so that you can have your free charge; that business passes the cost to all its customers. When businesses offer free charging to employees who do you think ultimately pays for that? I learned long ago that there is no free lunch, except, of course, when true friends meet, and even then when a friend gives me a free lunch, he pays for it.
If you're worried about the $0.000001 extra cost the Volta chargers add to your kombucha you can always go to Sprouts instead of Whole Foods.


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