VF engineering tune
 

Just ordered a VF Engineering Tune for the 997, really curios how much I will notice. Anyone have a tune form them, would love to know others experiences with them?
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What other mods do you have? From what Ive read, you'll need to have intake, throttle body, exhaust, cats, to have the tune make the most power for your dollar.

So far this is the first mod, other than cosmetic and a Gundo hack exhaust... I have friends with VF products on their R8's and Lambo's, all with great feedback but those were for the superchargers. Next step may be the supercharger, but one step at a time.

Yeah, I wouldn't anticipate too much of a gain from just the tune of a NA engine.

subscribing :corn:

Fedex says it arrives tomorrow, I will let you know how easy it is to install and how the power gains feel. I don't have access to a dyno but I have a pretty good feel...Stay tuned

Interested to hear the results. If you dont have sport mode I think at the very least it will remap the throttle making it feel more punchy.

Ps - and definitely keep me posted on the supercharger plans :-)

If you take that next step to the supercharger you will get a bunch of good info from searching RL member Petza914's posts. He has a RUF R Kompressor on his -05 997 and has a wealth of knowledge on those kind of mods and all aspects of Porsches in general.

Hahaha!

Yep, let me know.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...fc89e16def.jpg


Interested to hear tune results. I've never done a tune prior to other mods, only as the final step and as a Stage 2, like on my Cayenne Turbo S.

IPD plenum
Secondary cat bypass
Cargraphic muffler
HHR open intake
EVOMS billet diverter valves
Fabspeed Stage 2 tune
Added 100 HP bringing her up to 650.

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Wrapping up a PCCB brake upgrade today.


See if VF will make you a deal on modifying the tune you bought before installing it if you add other modifications. Once you have the Genius programmer, it's just a software file on their end, then you'd be able to retune and optimize if you decide to make further modifications.

Curious to see how the tune works out as well. I have never done a "mail order tune before" I have always dyno/street tuned my cars. Curious to see how this works out for you.

I am also very curious to see how the tune works out.

I contacted a couple of places (softronics, GIAC, APR, etc), probably 5 in total, and all but one said there is no difference in sending them a base file, and then them sending the tuned file back and installing, over a full dyno tune. I forget which one off the top of my head, but only one said " yeah with the other mods you have, dyno tuning is the way to go"

the dyno shop I talked to (National Speed, Wilmington, NC) said they'd start with a GIAC tune for the base (lowest claimed HP out of all of them....) and depending how everything works together, they said they should be able to pull an extra 25-35hp, possibly more. but i'll believe that when I see it.

current mods on my 07 997 base:
Engine rebuilt by Vision Motorsports, included polished and ported heads, knife edged crank. (long story)
Fabspeed dual cone intake
Borla Headers
AWE 200cell Cats
Borla Mufflers

Upcoming mods
Suspension: Ohlin's R&T or similar
wheels: OZ leggera HLT, 19"
Girodisc brake rotors: need new ones, figured id go slightly larger without busting the bank on a several thousand dollar big brake kit (unless stock S rotors/calipers can fit, but I've heard that's a no-go on a base carrera)
ECU Flash or Dyno Tune.

Remember the hp/tq numbers are at the peaks, and not over the whole curves. You should get some decent gains across the curve tho.

for those that have gotten a tune.. how does it compare to just getting a sprintbooster to increase throttle response..?

i would guess a dyno tune is the only real way of getting the best performance.. not all engines are the same.. how can a mail order tune fit them all?

from what I understand(I may be off a bit and probably over-simplifying) but when you send your stock tune in, it has data logged air/fuel ratios among other things, so when they send a tune back, the new one has corrections to all of those factors. Dyno tuning makes it real time and much more tangible

I am interested in how your car sound with the Borla headers and mufflers, take some videos please..

.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/1067103-exhaust-sound-clips-for-997s.html
posts #26 and #30 😁

Correct, you want a tune that has a good increase in the area under the curve and not just a high peak HP number..

Box arrived, install this week, I will detail the install and driving characteristics asap. Stay tuned....couldn't resist!

Not sure i get why you would tune an unmoddified car. Are you going to dyno pre and post to see what the actual increases are? Otherwise hard to see whether it makes any sense. And butt dynos are not known for there accuracy....

Mine has been pretty modded and will consider a tune in the spring when i am back from my road trip. Lots of off the shelf systems but would prob lean towards a local dyno tune

Any updates on this? Very curious to see your results!

Tune going in this week!!

Please post dyno sheets and/or pre-post app acceleration numbers. Thanks!

So the Hex Tune is in. Overall the experience was surprisingly easy to do. Here are my thoughts on each stage of getting the tune:

Why: My cars have always been bone stock but I wanted to finally get a bit more out of the car. I have worked with Porsche as a driver for 12 years and have driven everything under the sun. I am intimately aware of the reliability of the cars and the engine so I knew the car/engine could handle whatever I put on it, I wanted a bit more power but not a loud exhaust or intake. I did tons of research on tunes, who is good, better, best etc. Ultimately I landed on VF as they have a stellar reputation as an engineering firm, not so much as a simple tuner shop. I guess I see them as the BBS wheels of tuning.

How: After checking with friends that have VF tuned cars (mostly Lamborghini) and was given the thumbs up I ordered online, it would be better if VF had a bit more info online as to what to expect from the tune as posed to simple hp/tq numbers. UPS delivered a few days later.
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The box contained a usb cord that is specifically for my car and a few bis of swag from VF.

The Install: I am not a tech guy, my VCR still flashes 12:00!! So I figured if I could do this anyone could. So the cord plugs into the OBD port in the car and the other side in a PC (Mac will not work), after tracking down a friend with a PC (2 days..) I was in business. I followed the online instructions, they were kinda clear but could use some new images, but overall easy to follow. All the data required is put into preloaded boxes so you can't go wrong.


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Once the stock tune is uploaded you send it to the email provided and wait for about 24 hours. Then an email arrives, like Santa at Christmas!! and you have your tune that is specific to your car. The install was super easy just connect the cords again click a couple of buttons and in about 10 minutes the tune is uploaded. You are provided 2 files in the email, your stock tune and the new VF tune. That was you can return to stock anytime.

The Price: For a couple of donuts shy of $1000 I would say the price is more than fair for the power.

The drive: Once installed I wasted no time with the test, now as I said I'm no tech but I was a professional test diver for most of my career so I know what I'm looking and feeling for. The power addition is smooth and factory like, the throttle response is slightly enhanced in normal mode and noticeably enhanced in sport mode. The HP comes on around 4200rpm at mid throttle and is noticeable, the easiest way to describe it would be like taking 997.1 and making it feel like a 997.2, just enough more power to be noticed and appreciated. No change in idle or fuel economy so far. I would have no problem recommending this to anyone.

The company: Here is the link to VF in you are interested. https://vfe1.com/products/porsche-99...-gt3-gt2-turbo


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Seat of the pants, you think you picked up 10, 20hp? Or did it more shift the power band around?

I would say the advertises power gains of 20-25hp and 20-25tq are legit, is not a massive gain but I can and do feel it in the upper range.

Thanks for the insight and review of the tune. I have been thinking about this for a long time as well. In your research have you heard of any additional maintenance that might be required after running a tune long term? For example, needing spark plugs changed or new coils more often?? Or what about passing smog inspections? Do you need to revert to original file to pass smog? Just curious if you found any info like that.

Thanks again for the review, very tempting:thumbup:

Yes thank you! Very tempting.

I sent the following questions to VF technical service, but figure I would post them here too to see if you had any info:

1. can they tune for 91 octane? California only sells 91 and it causes an engine knock if you blip the throttle below 2,500 RPM. (At least thats the explanation I got).
2. does the tune for the base 997 increase throttle response (like C2S sport mode).

Those are probably best asked/answered by VF. I can tell you that I just went for a very fun drive and the more I drive the car sportily the more notice the gains. Love it!

I would don't this so on the smog, as for maintaining the car, I don't expect any major differences as I didn't add any non Porsche parts to the car, just a software rewrite

So no before and after dyno charts? $1000 seems a bit expensive for a mail order tune. Now when you are saying 20hp you mean 20hp at the crank or rwhp? Im assuming at the crank because its super hard to gain 20rwhp without hardware (exhaust, intake etc.) Unless the car is already FI of course.

1000 is about on par for the majority of the mail order tunes I've seen. I've asked several questions to several vendors (GIAC, APR, Softronic, and now VF) - all of them are 900-1200 to buy. My sticking point is, will their mail order tune take into account the modifications that have already been done to my car? I know they do a TON of datalogging to produce a quality product, but how many Base 997s have been rebuilt with ported/polished heads, knife edged crank and then a full exhaust/intake setup put on them? my guess is not a whole lot. On my car, the extensive modifications have added a noticeable amount of hesitation between 5000-5200RPM, which i'd like to get rid of (that alone would make a tune worth it to me) Or, will a full blown Dyno tune be the only way to truly maximize? APR basically gave me ZERO sales pitch, and said it would be best to get a dyno tune, no matter what software I was considering.

APR advertises the highest overall HP gain for a base 997 C2 at (may be a number or two off, don't have their site in front of me right now) 24 crank hp, 27 tq or so, GIAC being the lowest, if my memory serves correctly, advertising only ~9-10 crank HP. The dyno shop near me that wants to do the tune says they'll start with the GIAC as it is the easiest for them to modify. IF APR/softronic/VF can push that 20-25hp limit, and have it work with the mods correctly, it most certainly would be worth it compared to GIAC with its meager 9hp gain, however, I assume the dyno shop will have much more customizable options, even if they start with the GIAC, which, theoretically could easily reach 20, 25, maybe even 30HP depending how it works with the current mods in place - especially since the dyno tune can custom tune the air-fuel ratio throughout the entire REV range, probably ending with a higher HP gain than the 9 from GIAC out of the box, probably safer (AFR can be specifically tuned for max power/efficiency), and in the end worth more overall to get than a mail order tune, even if the cost is greater. Also, it'll get pre/post dyno results.

I'm glad to hear the tune turned out well! nothing beats when something works as advertised, especially if it makes you enjoy your car more!

Yes glad the OP feels it was worth it but i would never do this myself. Dont trust anyone's butt dyno regardless of seat time. Would need solid ie dyno evidence that it worked or it would be returned

And without a dyno whether he thinks rwhp or crank is meaningless

Maybe there is some marginal improvement on stock cars but if you get an off the shelf tune you want it to work so you feel that it is working - just like the guys that add air filters and talk bout how the response is sooo much better and they can for sure feel the extra HP - its just human nature and everyone does it. True data is the only way to know and i dont trust the vendors data either. If they were all doing a tune on a stock engine and they all wanted to maximize results (so they can sell more product) then why would the performance improvement numbers be so different ie +/- 200%?

Agree with Milo that on engines that have been more modified, like mine, then i will go custom dyno tune

Cheers

Don't have to trust anyone's butt dyno since there is an easy way to get objective data. I recently play with the virtualdyno s/w since I want to compare my dynopack data with it and the result are consistence with each other. Just download virtualdyno (it's free) and do a log with the Torque Pro app on Android and/or IPhone via an OBDII dongle ($10 on Amazon) and you will have real data. Then we'll see whether the data are consistence with the OP's butt dyno.

Where did you send the questions to, and did they respond?

Interesting notes, thanks. How close was the data you got between a dynopack and the virtualdyno?

I sent to their technical service email. No response yet.

The dynopack and the virtualdyno runs were done in two different days, in different gear, with different operators under significantly different outside temp conditions which had a big impact on the output of my other turbo car, I was doing the comparison mainly to verify the shape of the curves (spool time & failing off at high rpm). Given that, the different between the WTQ and WHP numbers on the dynopack and the virtual dyno for my other car was within 7%. The log from my back-to-back runs under the same outside temp condition with the same operators were yielding WTQ and WHP numbers within 4% of each other.

So I'd suggest the OP log a few runs with the stock tune then switch over the VF's tune and do a few more runs to verify his butt dyno... taking averages of those runs should tell a story

Well who says he's getting any HP or how much? I am sure the tune improves something but without pre/post dynos on the same car, who knows?? And i have my doubts the differences are in how they report. If you were a vendor wouldnt you put the highest number possible?


Ok well thats cool. I am going to check that out, Thanks

I dont think that a company intentionally misleading customers on HP gains is something that happens a great deal at this level. All of VF's claims are dyno backed. I dont need the Dentist to send me an X-ray after they put in the filling to prove its there... All I can say is that I am a very happy customer that believes VF has the integrity to sell actual, provable updates...

Yeah, you'd want to post the highest numbers possible. But then people install it and if claims don't match reality, your reputation goes to hell and you get abused, on this forum in particular (see that climerepair thread for evidence.)

CW

Didnt say anyone was misleading customers. What i said was that without specific dyno results on your car you dont know what improvements you are getting. Dyno results can be very different on the same machine with different operators and different conditions. Vendors will always present the best case possible. Nothing misleading, its called marketing. And btw the dentist doesnt tell you that the fillin is made of titanium and therefore is good for an extra 10hp when you drive. You can just open your mouth and see its there!

I am glad you are happy with the results. I didnt pay for it so who cares what i think :thumbsup:

Well no one has actually dyno'd it so how is anyone to prove the claims match reality. I am sure they do but as someone said, trust but verify.....

I dont think the climarepair example is a good one. You can look at the switches (the early ones anyways) and objectively tell they were ****. No testing required.

The email I got back from them said:
"Our NA software is calibrated for stock engine components only, we do not offer any custom tuning"

Guess i'm going to have to go for a Dyno Tune since I've got the mods. I'd love to go for a Supercharger made by them, but I cant justify $10k. I've found the supercharger they use stand alone for $2500, and they use a stock center radiator($200) to cool the air-water intercooler so I find it hard to believe the piping they supply and the intercooler is worth an extra $7300. My assumption is that they're basically recovering the cost of R&D at the $10k pricepoint

How you gonna mount that thing? 😂 just the charger is one thing, but the parts that make it work are the parts that are difficult and expensive to fab up.

Moreover, 10k for the system is a fair price. I came from highly modified Miata's, where the entry level systems run you 6k...

Um... and don't forget the DME control either. Forced induction requires a different or a piggyback DME to tune for the fuel mapping, also possibly a different MAF sensor to support the full range of values you'll see with the car at low or no boost (idle) and at full boost. What's the plan for lowering the compression ratio, which should also be done, but I don't think VF does this with their kits, and you need to take the intake air temp after the air is compressed and intercooled so the DME gets an accurate temp reported to it. You also need provisions for detecting detonation and tune so if detected, the car can pull timing advance, boost or both.

Slapping all the parts onto a stock NA engine without all the other stuff would be a sure way to destroy one, if you could even get it to run.

Not sure how you came up with that interpretation of what i am saying. And I will say (again) I dont doubt the tune provides some optimization but the question is how much? You can believe the vendors (whose claimed gains are all over the place) or you can do your own dyno work so you know exactly what you are getting. Spending $1k on 5 hp wouldnt be my idea of value but if its 25 then thats a different story.

I find it very odd that i dont think i have seen anyone here buy an off the shelf tune and do pre/post dynos to validate any vendors claim! People have run elaborate tests on measuring incremental temp changes on hot air intakes for gawds sake. People plunk down their cash on all kinds of things and then claim the ol butt dyno validates that extra 7 hp claim :roflmao:

Its like the x-files, I want to believe!!!!

As I said earlier, I assume the cost offsets the R&D in order to make the system work for the 911. not sure why that's laughable?

I've done a fair amount of research on them, no need to drop the engine(though it may make some things easier). No modification the manifold itself, just adding the SC to the engine bay with the intercooler and associated parts.

VF doesn't drop compression with their kits(not ideal), but that's probably why they've limited the boost to what they have. plenty of 50,000+ mile stories with no issues on these. tired of the "don't do forced induction, you'll just blow your engine up" argument. I assume VF is too, hence why they designed the kit the way they do. Is it harder on the engine? for sure. will it wear out faster? probably. but is it an instant engine grenade if you install it correctly? I'm gonna guess no on that because I don't think they'd be in business if that were the case.

We didn't say that. In your post 46 you said you wanted to buy their supercharger and a stock center radiator and save $7,500. All of the responses you quoted in your previous message had to do with your comment about not buying their kit, just a couple of components and thinking all would be great, which is why we brought up mounting, temperature input, tuning, detonation prevention, etc. Having the supercharger unit itself is one thing. What are you going to use to add the belt that drives it, probably from the crank pulley. Out point was that the $7,500 you mentioned as profit for recovering R&D isn't nearly so as there's a lot more to it than a supercharger and radiator.

We'll all follow along if you decide to do it your way though - would be interesting.

And this is a system I am interested in! It's slick and has a great reputation.

I think the miscommunication between us is that what I mean is, I find it hard to believe that after buying 2 of the 3 main components(one being the most expensive part), everything else still costs that much. Not saying just slap an SC to the engine and call it a day. I get that there's obviously a lot more to put into it than just a supercharger and radiator. Seems like some piping (which doesn't appear too difficult to replicate) and a bracket(obviously specially made, but a small part none the less, and once figured out, should not be a high dollar item) sensors and injectors, and the actual intercooler(big part #3), then the tune. All of these things really shouldn't be upcharged an insane amount, especially once all the kinks are worked out.
that's why I assume the rest of the cost is mark up to cover R&D on the total system. I've seen supercharger piping kits for lesser cars than ours in the $200-300 range(intake pipe to SC, SC to intercooler, intercooler to intake manifold), probably made of the exact same material. Obviously the ones for the VF kit are specific lengths/diameters/ bends so there would be some mark up, but I wouldnt expect them to be a gigantic difference in overall cost over a kit made of the exact same stuff for another car. If you look at the kit on VF's website it has 22 total parts (27 if you count each injector individually).
realistically best option in the case of an SC would be to find a good used kit

Yep, they're out there from time to time in the marketplace and aren't usually fast movers. At one time I did some research on a TPC one that came available going so far as to start looking into the installation instructions and then decided I wasn't doing to do it on my wife's car.

Here's are pictures of the parts that are part of the RUF setup on my car as shown on their marketing engine at release. Everything shown in green or yellow has been changed from stock.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a794f16ff8.jpg
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And also attached here are those installation instructions on the other kit (TPC) I was looking at briefly if you want to get an idea of what's involved.

I had an S2000 built by Ballade Motorsports who did it with Autowave. It was a good $4-5k dumped into keeping it 'safe' to bounce off the rev limiter and chasing power with bolt-ons. I don't remember everything done now, but with full head work, straight pipes, intake, intake manifold, throttle body and a stand alone AEM EMS ecu the car with ~50,000 miles dynoed with a peak 217 whp. That's about a 10 crank hp increase over factory albeit for most of the curve. So I wouldn't say it was the best bang for the buck. But you're right about power band; shifting the torque down the curve gave an extra average 20+ ft lbs between around 3,000 rpms up to near redline and made the car fly at autocross. That F20 felt like a different engine and could be driven a little, uh, easier, while still enjoying 9,000 rpms all day long with back to back drivers.

A few quick Q's:

So I'm in Corona down the street from you guys - do you have a dyno in house that I could do a before and after with?

On the website it says stock car, would a BMC air filter, IPD plenum (factory TB) and forthcoming RSS harmonic damped underdrive pulley still have the car classified as 'stock?'

Lastly on the throttle response, can this be tailored in the tune? I actually want something opposed of sharped up throttle response, the anti-sprint booster if you will. I would like a straight linear relationship between the pedal position and power i.e. only at WOT should the car be performing 100% that way there is more resolution with the throttle pedal and engine power trim. Right now with just stock it feels like when I'm around 60-70% pedal depression the car is at 100% power. Of course, I don't want there to be a delay between call and response.

:icon501: Holy Moly that is one crazy process. I couldn't imagine doing this install with the motor still attached. Definitely raised the 'respect' level of the labor involved for a supercharger install. Yowza!

I remember Greddy made a California legal turbo kit for the first generation 1.6l Miata and I thought it was the coolest thing. It was 4.5 psi, non-intercooled and msrp'd for about $900 when they sold the kit. Install took a half day, I believe you needed to tap the motor for an oil return line, came with a fuel pressure riser and the common cheat was to install a bipes timing unit and small fmic off an rx-7 (little square unit!) to hit 6 lbs of boost. Car would dyno in around 150 whp and up to 170 whp with the mods and larger 2" exhaust which was huge when the car would only do about 90 whp as-is. Folks hated it for being such a small turbo and complained the manifold was garbage and it was - needed relief cuts and new hardware, but for $900 and some change giving that little rev happy 1.6l motor some mid-range torque to get its tail out on power increased its smiles per miles three fold. Anyways, reading over the instruction made me appreciate how convenient that Miata kit was!

Not sure where the $700 came from...?

My anecdote was to highlight the point that it took several thousand to get a "meaningful" performance increase out of that Honda F20. I'd have to dig out the dyno sheet to see what the stock number was, I want to say 204-ish. In my experience it wasn't as simple as a few hundred flash for 220 whp and all was good. I would expect the same or more for high caliber cars such as the Boxster or 911. I'm sure you get what I mean when I say meaningful (material delta at all rpms used).

I'm in the camp that believes Porsche wouldn't have left meaningful power on the table if the cost/benefit didn't support it. I dunno if I buy the emissions arguments; gearing, ancillary components for startup/temperature, filters, etc. play more to that than engine tuning in my completely uneducated opinion.

A meaningful 10 whp increase across the usable power band is hard to find on relatively modern naturally aspirated cars with aftermarket parts. And there's plenty of Boxster race cars out there every weekend trying to find it!

Yes!!! I had that Greddy system. Had it for years! And it was quick. Added an FM ecu, added Intercooler, ran 12-15psi for probably 50k miles before the turbine started hitting the housing. Then changed over to a used fm kit that ran until the car hit over 200k miles and I sold it to my little brother. Great system.

For 10HP why bother? Maybe it makes a noticeable difference on a car with 200hp but no one is ever going to notice 10hp on a 355hp car. Feel the same way about the intakes as well btw

For real noticeable improvement you have to go FI or boring etc and that comes with a material cost

cant zoom in legibly on the graph, but how does one get rid of that dip that looks like its around 5200rpm (both HP and Tq)? I've seen it on nearly EVERY dyno sheet for a naturally aspirated 997, and while I could kind of feel it when my car was stock, once I did full exhaust and intake after the rebuild, the dip is really pronounced at WOT. pretty much non existent when I'm not flooring it, but its annoying and it shouldn't be there.