Buy a Base 997 with 92K?
12-24-2018, 07:07 PM
#1
Buy a Base 997 with 92K?
I recently test drove a '05 C2 6S with 92K miles.
I have received a lot of the paperwork from the repairs so far.
Brake pads and rotors have been replaced.
IMS LN Engineering done at 66K miles
RMS and Sachs clutch/flywheel done at same time
Water pump replaced
Ignition coil and serpentine beltsreplaced at 66K miles
Are most of my repairs out of the way for 92K? I'm having a PPI done and thinking about doing a Leak Down test as well.
Is there anything I missed?
Oil changes have been done at 5K intervals too! Got the receipts. Done at Matrix Integrated in Portland,
Does $27K seem like a reasonable price if the PPI checks out?
I have received a lot of the paperwork from the repairs so far.
Brake pads and rotors have been replaced.
IMS LN Engineering done at 66K miles
RMS and Sachs clutch/flywheel done at same time
Water pump replaced
Ignition coil and serpentine beltsreplaced at 66K miles
Are most of my repairs out of the way for 92K? I'm having a PPI done and thinking about doing a Leak Down test as well.
Is there anything I missed?
Oil changes have been done at 5K intervals too! Got the receipts. Done at Matrix Integrated in Portland,
Does $27K seem like a reasonable price if the PPI checks out?
12-24-2018, 07:42 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Really depends who does the job for all those maintenance. 911s are not like Toyota Corollas, that anybody could fix it and you can rely on running it forever. Every time anybody who touches it, has to be thorough and while fixing something, NOT to break something else that might not be obvious until down the road. My 997 was once at a shop up on the lift for a PPI because someone is interested in it and then while the car was fine and I didn't sell it because the buyer was trying to lowball me with things that the shop found that were just not true. My car was perfect and yet the shop, in order to justify their expertise and the charge of the PPI, told him all kinds of irrelevant issues. Well I rejected the buyers offer right there and then. Drove the car home and on the way, it was rattling like crazy. Jack the car up, went through every possible means of why the car was perfectly fine and yet having a rattling sound after the shop visit. Found out they loosened the muffler brackets to get to the spark plug and coils to look at the cylinder. Nothing wrong with that except they didn't put back the muffler brackets correctly. I had to spend at least 3 hours trying to refit the mufflers back correctly because they tighten the clamps while the muffler tubes were not seated correctly. Thereafter also found out that some fasteners holding the under body covers were missing. My take is there are very few shops out there that I really trust. I work on my own 997 and would rather not let anybody touch it if at all possible. My car was perfectly fine, but had these issues afterwards due to some inept Porsche mechanic wannabes touched it.
So to answer your question, all the proof of any work done on 997 shouldn't automatically give you a peace of mind. Not because the owner is clueless when it comes to taking care of it, but whether you can trust the person doing the work and whether they did it correctly.
So to answer your question, all the proof of any work done on 997 shouldn't automatically give you a peace of mind. Not because the owner is clueless when it comes to taking care of it, but whether you can trust the person doing the work and whether they did it correctly.
12-24-2018, 07:49 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Hey there. Welcome! I've got an 06 base. Its a crazy value to get into the 911 world.
Sounds like a reasonable price and all that maintenance is good. I assume if they did the coils at 66k they did the plugs as well? Those should have been done at 40k and 80k. What about cabin and engine air filters? These cars like to be driven so I wouldn't be concerned about miles if its been well maintained.
Here is a list I wrote down the other day on things to check in a 997.1
-------------------
Preface
We tend to have a handful of 997.2 guys on the forum who like to flame topics like this with inflammatory comments and broad generations about the M96/M97 engine. Pls take with a grain of salt. The 997.2 has a better engine but the 997.1 is highly reliable car that trades at a ~$15k+ discount. To each his own.
Major Mechanical
- IMS: extremely low/negligible risk for 2006 to 2008 model years. 2005 model year needs a replacement bearing if its already not been done. Some late year production 2005's have the newer large bearing found in the 2006 model year. You can estimate using the engine number. (Not applicable for you)
- Bore Scoring: affects a very small number of cars. Largely been isolated to cold weather cars in midwest and Canada. Results in high oil consumption, left tailpipe that is sooty and eventually a loud knocking. Potentially a result of high ethanol in the fuel, improper warmup, nobody knows for sure. Focus you search on warm weather cars. It it spent anytime in cold climates just make sure you get the bores scoped during PPI.
- RMS: can develop a small leak in earlier production cars but not a big deal. Typically just gets replaced when you replace the clutch. The seal itself costs maybe $20 and easy to replace when the clutch is out. (Probably not an issue with yours or they would have replaced it at 66k.)
Wear & Tear
- Note: all of these can be done inexpensively if you are a DIY guy. But they can add up if you are bringing it to a dealer. Ive added the part cost and likely labor time if you DIY it or bring to a dealer.
- Water pump: typically need to be replaced every 50k miles. Part $300 / 4-5 hr job (Already done but these need to be replaced every 5 yrs)
- Coolant Expansion Tank: they get brittle with age and can crack. Part $100 / 5-6hr job
- Starter/Alternator Cable: a bad crimp leads to resistance buildup in the cable and a slow crank when the car is hot. Part $150 / 6hr job
- Ignition switch: these can go. Part $150 / 30 min job
- Gas cap seal: these can get brittle and lead to a vacuum leak. Part $50 / 15 min job
- Hood release switch: these can break. Part $150 / 2hr job
- Door latch release arm: these can break. Part $30 / 2hr job
- Air/oil separator: these can go leading to a smoke show. Part is $100 but its a bitch to replace on the base model.
- Strut mounts: these can start knocking a bit at 60k-100k miles
- Clutch / pressure plate: people typically are getting 50-100k miles on these. The pressure plates on the 997.1 tend to be a weak point leading to a premature clutch replacement.
Maintenance Schedule
- Oil every 5k miles
- Brake flush every 2 years
- New plugs every 40k miles
- Likely want to replace the transmission fluid even though it technically lasts for 100k miles
Cosmetic
- AC switches: soft touch paint gets chewed up. Easy DIY install. they cost $150 from https://www.macarbon.com
- Center console: same issue with the soft touch paint. Can cover in leather, buy a new one for $600 or DIY respray if for $20
"Must Have" Mods
- Fister Exhaust
- Eibach springs and spacers (these are required on a base model because its got a 4x4 stock ride height)
- LaPower bluethooth module to bring the PCM into the modern age with hands free calling and streaming audio
- Some will recommend adding a 3rd radiator and low-temp thermostat
Additional PPI Recommendations
- I dont think a leak down is applicable to these modern cars. If you had any issues you would get a CEL.
- However, do get the bores scoped during your ppi to make sure no scoring. Check to see if the driver side exhaust has more soot than the passenger.
- Ask the current owner what oil they use and how much oil they have to add between changes. My car burns no oil. Some cars burn more. You just want to make sure its not burning excessive oil.
- You must check the DME for overrevs. Anything above 4 is a shady.
- Check the PH of the brake fluid. That needs to be replaced every two years.
- Get the engine up to temp and then turn the car off. If the starter is slow or sluggish you need to replace the starter/alternator cable
- Get a flashlight on the coolant tank and inspect carefully
- For a car with these miles I would ask them to remove the oil filter and inspect for any debris. You will lose a little oil but they can top it off, or you can just split the oil change with the current owner. Lots of shiny metal flakes are bad. Also look for any brownish specks. Thats chain tensioner. If the filter is clean you know you have a pretty solid engine.
- If you want to get really thorough you can remove the oil pan to inspect for any debris. If the filter is clear thats not required.
- Does the car smoke on cold start? That would be Air/Oil separator.
- Check the air filter. Inspect the throttle body.
- Does it clatter at all or knock?
- Any obvious leaks.
- Check the age of the tires. You need to get on all fours and inspect the inside edge of the rear tires. Those go first.
- Check the shock bump stops. They sometimes rot with age and fall apart.
- When you start the car is there any delay between when you turn the key and the starter engages? If so, you ignition switch needs to be replaced.
- Do you hear any knock from the suspension when going over bumps. If so your strut mounts need to be replaced.
- Check all the buttons, switches and seat adjustments to make sure they work
- How is the paint?
- How are the headlights and foglight. If they are oxidized they can be polished out. However if the foglights are crazed from sun there is nothing you can do.
- Alignment during driving. Should track true and no wobble in the wheel at any speed
- It should shift smoothly in all gears with no grinding. If the car is cold or hasn't been driven in a while it can be a little sticky to get into first.
- How is the windshield seal and cowling?
Keep us posted.
Sounds like a reasonable price and all that maintenance is good. I assume if they did the coils at 66k they did the plugs as well? Those should have been done at 40k and 80k. What about cabin and engine air filters? These cars like to be driven so I wouldn't be concerned about miles if its been well maintained.
Here is a list I wrote down the other day on things to check in a 997.1
-------------------
Preface
We tend to have a handful of 997.2 guys on the forum who like to flame topics like this with inflammatory comments and broad generations about the M96/M97 engine. Pls take with a grain of salt. The 997.2 has a better engine but the 997.1 is highly reliable car that trades at a ~$15k+ discount. To each his own.
Major Mechanical
- IMS: extremely low/negligible risk for 2006 to 2008 model years. 2005 model year needs a replacement bearing if its already not been done. Some late year production 2005's have the newer large bearing found in the 2006 model year. You can estimate using the engine number. (Not applicable for you)
- Bore Scoring: affects a very small number of cars. Largely been isolated to cold weather cars in midwest and Canada. Results in high oil consumption, left tailpipe that is sooty and eventually a loud knocking. Potentially a result of high ethanol in the fuel, improper warmup, nobody knows for sure. Focus you search on warm weather cars. It it spent anytime in cold climates just make sure you get the bores scoped during PPI.
- RMS: can develop a small leak in earlier production cars but not a big deal. Typically just gets replaced when you replace the clutch. The seal itself costs maybe $20 and easy to replace when the clutch is out. (Probably not an issue with yours or they would have replaced it at 66k.)
Wear & Tear
- Note: all of these can be done inexpensively if you are a DIY guy. But they can add up if you are bringing it to a dealer. Ive added the part cost and likely labor time if you DIY it or bring to a dealer.
- Water pump: typically need to be replaced every 50k miles. Part $300 / 4-5 hr job (Already done but these need to be replaced every 5 yrs)
- Coolant Expansion Tank: they get brittle with age and can crack. Part $100 / 5-6hr job
- Starter/Alternator Cable: a bad crimp leads to resistance buildup in the cable and a slow crank when the car is hot. Part $150 / 6hr job
- Ignition switch: these can go. Part $150 / 30 min job
- Gas cap seal: these can get brittle and lead to a vacuum leak. Part $50 / 15 min job
- Hood release switch: these can break. Part $150 / 2hr job
- Door latch release arm: these can break. Part $30 / 2hr job
- Air/oil separator: these can go leading to a smoke show. Part is $100 but its a bitch to replace on the base model.
- Strut mounts: these can start knocking a bit at 60k-100k miles
- Clutch / pressure plate: people typically are getting 50-100k miles on these. The pressure plates on the 997.1 tend to be a weak point leading to a premature clutch replacement.
Maintenance Schedule
- Oil every 5k miles
- Brake flush every 2 years
- New plugs every 40k miles
- Likely want to replace the transmission fluid even though it technically lasts for 100k miles
Cosmetic
- AC switches: soft touch paint gets chewed up. Easy DIY install. they cost $150 from https://www.macarbon.com
- Center console: same issue with the soft touch paint. Can cover in leather, buy a new one for $600 or DIY respray if for $20
"Must Have" Mods
- Fister Exhaust
- Eibach springs and spacers (these are required on a base model because its got a 4x4 stock ride height)
- LaPower bluethooth module to bring the PCM into the modern age with hands free calling and streaming audio
- Some will recommend adding a 3rd radiator and low-temp thermostat
Additional PPI Recommendations
- I dont think a leak down is applicable to these modern cars. If you had any issues you would get a CEL.
- However, do get the bores scoped during your ppi to make sure no scoring. Check to see if the driver side exhaust has more soot than the passenger.
- Ask the current owner what oil they use and how much oil they have to add between changes. My car burns no oil. Some cars burn more. You just want to make sure its not burning excessive oil.
- You must check the DME for overrevs. Anything above 4 is a shady.
- Check the PH of the brake fluid. That needs to be replaced every two years.
- Get the engine up to temp and then turn the car off. If the starter is slow or sluggish you need to replace the starter/alternator cable
- Get a flashlight on the coolant tank and inspect carefully
- For a car with these miles I would ask them to remove the oil filter and inspect for any debris. You will lose a little oil but they can top it off, or you can just split the oil change with the current owner. Lots of shiny metal flakes are bad. Also look for any brownish specks. Thats chain tensioner. If the filter is clean you know you have a pretty solid engine.
- If you want to get really thorough you can remove the oil pan to inspect for any debris. If the filter is clear thats not required.
- Does the car smoke on cold start? That would be Air/Oil separator.
- Check the air filter. Inspect the throttle body.
- Does it clatter at all or knock?
- Any obvious leaks.
- Check the age of the tires. You need to get on all fours and inspect the inside edge of the rear tires. Those go first.
- Check the shock bump stops. They sometimes rot with age and fall apart.
- When you start the car is there any delay between when you turn the key and the starter engages? If so, you ignition switch needs to be replaced.
- Do you hear any knock from the suspension when going over bumps. If so your strut mounts need to be replaced.
- Check all the buttons, switches and seat adjustments to make sure they work
- How is the paint?
- How are the headlights and foglight. If they are oxidized they can be polished out. However if the foglights are crazed from sun there is nothing you can do.
- Alignment during driving. Should track true and no wobble in the wheel at any speed
- It should shift smoothly in all gears with no grinding. If the car is cold or hasn't been driven in a while it can be a little sticky to get into first.
- How is the windshield seal and cowling?
Keep us posted.
The following 2 users liked this post by TheBruce:
Ditka77 (07-23-2020),
Robert Kaufman (04-21-2020)
12-24-2018, 08:46 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Just remember that once your car hits 100k some people will not want to touch it due to the miles. If you plan to keep it forever then that is not an issue. Just make sure that it is exactly what you want in terms of options as reselling with over 100k could be difficult.
12-24-2018, 09:23 PM
#5
Just remember that once your car hits 100k some people will not want to touch it due to the miles. If you plan to keep it forever then that is not an issue. Just make sure that it is exactly what you want in terms of options as reselling with over 100k could be difficult.
12-24-2018, 09:31 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
12-25-2018, 12:26 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Seems like a fair deal. You could always “go deeper” with the PPI - pull the pan to check for metal/debris, scope the cylinders, compression test, etc. But if you feel like it has been well maintained and you trust the work, the risk that something will go horribly wrong is likely low and risk/benefit ratio is on your side. Got any photos?
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12-25-2018, 02:19 AM
#8
Nordschleife Master
I recently test drove a '05 C2 6S with 92K miles.
I have received a lot of the paperwork from the repairs so far.
Brake pads and rotors have been replaced.
IMS LN Engineering done at 66K miles
RMS and Sachs clutch/flywheel done at same time
Water pump replaced
Ignition coil and serpentine beltsreplaced at 66K miles
Are most of my repairs out of the way for 92K? I'm having a PPI done and thinking about doing a Leak Down test as well.
Is there anything I missed?
Oil changes have been done at 5K intervals too! Got the receipts. Done at Matrix Integrated in Portland,
Does $27K seem like a reasonable price if the PPI checks out?
I have received a lot of the paperwork from the repairs so far.
Brake pads and rotors have been replaced.
IMS LN Engineering done at 66K miles
RMS and Sachs clutch/flywheel done at same time
Water pump replaced
Ignition coil and serpentine beltsreplaced at 66K miles
Are most of my repairs out of the way for 92K? I'm having a PPI done and thinking about doing a Leak Down test as well.
Is there anything I missed?
Oil changes have been done at 5K intervals too! Got the receipts. Done at Matrix Integrated in Portland,
Does $27K seem like a reasonable price if the PPI checks out?
12-25-2018, 05:16 AM
#9
Matrix is a very good and trustworthy company. They do know Porsche. Talk to Jeremy or Bryan, the owners, both drive Porsche’s, both are members of the Porsche Club, and get their opinion about the car.
12-25-2018, 01:53 PM
#10
The under bumper area has some paint peeling from what might be a parking curb that was run into? I don’t think that’s a big deal.
I felt a little hesitation, not much, when accelerating hard. That’s why I’m think maybe a compression or leak down test with the PPI.
Current Owner supplied Carfax says 3 owners, old lady from SoCal, 2nd up on Mt. Hood, and 3rd in Portland. I’d be 4th. Was told 2nd didn’t drive in snow although he was on the mountain. (If driven cold, scoring could be an issue but that would’ve been discovered by Matrix by now. That would’ve been 30K miles ago). https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/link/224116765
12-25-2018, 02:00 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Interior has some typical wear in various areas although the photos leave a lot to be desired. Definitely get a good idea about interior and exterior condition since it sounds like mechanically it is sorted. You could probably get it a little cheaper.
12-26-2018, 03:37 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Early this year, I bought a similar car => base 2005 with 90k miles and good maintenance records. It was a local car here in Seattle.
The car had some nice options like factory SSK, sport chrono (I don't use it, but it looks nice :P)
Interior also was in decent condition for the car. I got a detailed PPI with bore-scoping also done.
Price seems around the right area (I paid $26k for mine)
At that mileage, be sure to check the paint and evaluate if the car needs a respray (PPI should do this).
The car had some nice options like factory SSK, sport chrono (I don't use it, but it looks nice :P)
Interior also was in decent condition for the car. I got a detailed PPI with bore-scoping also done.
Price seems around the right area (I paid $26k for mine)
At that mileage, be sure to check the paint and evaluate if the car needs a respray (PPI should do this).
12-26-2018, 04:03 PM
#14
I bought one with 89K
Hey,
All I will say is that I was always dead set against getting a high mileage car. Last year I picked up an '05 with 89K and have no regrets. Car seems sorted (I don't want to jinx myself) and I am happy - the fact that it has high mileage is actually a plus since I don't feel like I have to baby it. You may get less for it when (if) you go to sell it later on but realistically, you paid less for it, so it's a wash.
Only additional advise I can give you is to find out which version of IMS bearing is in that car and when LN recommends replacing it again.
Good luck
All I will say is that I was always dead set against getting a high mileage car. Last year I picked up an '05 with 89K and have no regrets. Car seems sorted (I don't want to jinx myself) and I am happy - the fact that it has high mileage is actually a plus since I don't feel like I have to baby it. You may get less for it when (if) you go to sell it later on but realistically, you paid less for it, so it's a wash.
Only additional advise I can give you is to find out which version of IMS bearing is in that car and when LN recommends replacing it again.
Good luck
12-27-2018, 11:27 PM
#15
3rd Gear
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Last month I bought a 10/2004 C2 6MT with 86k. Two owner car, owned since 2007 by second owner, trade at a MB dealer. Alabama car so no salt or really cold weather.
Paid $27k.
Guards/black, 19" Carrera S wheels, sport steering wheel, PASM, Sport Chrono, headrest crest, The exact colors and equipment I wanted in a C2, which is why I did it.
Not enthusiast owned, the maintenance history is spotty, so having to start from scratch and hope it doesn't explode. So far no real regrets, I enjoy having one of the cheapest 997s as it's a driver and while I take care of it and care for it, it's not a museum piece and it's OK if something happens.
If you like the colors and the car checks out, go for it.
Paid $27k.
Guards/black, 19" Carrera S wheels, sport steering wheel, PASM, Sport Chrono, headrest crest, The exact colors and equipment I wanted in a C2, which is why I did it.
Not enthusiast owned, the maintenance history is spotty, so having to start from scratch and hope it doesn't explode. So far no real regrets, I enjoy having one of the cheapest 997s as it's a driver and while I take care of it and care for it, it's not a museum piece and it's OK if something happens.
If you like the colors and the car checks out, go for it.