Charles Navarro

Just give George a call in the office and he can amend your order. We should have plenty as we ordered a full skid.

Charles Navarro

Obviously, this would be something completely out of anyone's control. I do agree that short drives and frequent start up and shutdown, like in a shop or dealership setting where cars get shuffled around is horrible for the engine. We've verified this with used oil analysis. I won't say what shop we did the test for, but let me just say they now push cars rather than start them to move them.

However, we know from experience that new engines from Porsche have lots of manufacturing and break-in debris. This is why we would always drop the pan on new crate engines and put fresh break-in oil, then drain after the short break-in period. So what is to say that any engine serviced under the factory guidelines from new didn't have nasty stuff in the oil which in turn would increase wear.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't worry any more about a car the example car driven 33 miles in one year over another that was picked up with say, 5 miles, and didn't get it's first oil change for two years or up to 24,000 miles (original m96 OCI).

Fahrer

My 2008 C2S was delivered manufactured in October of 2007. It was delivered to the dealer and sat there until July 2009. During that period it accumulated 60 miles of what I would consider worst case miles..... test drives. I think the car sat there there because it wasn't "special " enough. Most of the 911s there had full leather interiors, were AWD and had convertible tops and were much "cooler" than mine ( mine is silver with standard black interior). Well, the 2010's were about to arrive soon and it was during the "great recession" so I got a really great deal! I drove the car over the next 2300 miles ( hopefully undoing the initial 60 mile abuse?) breaking the car in "by the book" ( relatively constant speeds, light throttle and under 3K rpms and about 2-3 hours per trip) and then changed the oil ( the dealer thought this was unnecessary but I did it anyway). My car did use some oil during the break-in period but not enough where I needed to add any. Now , in 2019, with about 30K miles my car uses little to no oil ( perhaps at the rate of about 1 qt per 6-10K miles?) and I change the oil once per year ( ~3K miles). I will drive it in winter if the roads are clean and dry but this opportunity does not exist very often ( not at all last winter). I never start the car in winter just to start it). When I drive it in good weather, I always warm it up properly ( drive right away with light throttle and under 3K until 200F oil temp) and drive at least 45 - 90 minutes per drive. I also do a 2 minute cool-down on very hot days.

I am not buying the argument that "garage queens" are doomed to all of the fatal failures discussed in these forums. I have no evidence of bore scoring, I do not plan to remove the grease seal on the IMS and I use Mobil 1 0W-40 oil. With the exception that I change the oil every 3K miles and did not replace the spark plugs until the car was about 8 years old with about 27k miles ( the plugs were fine), I follow Porsche's maintenance schedule. Yes, I only have about 30K miles on my car and who knows what lies ahead but many folks report no major issues at 100K, 150K miles.

There are a number of theories out there. The only thing I have observed consistently over the last 10 years, reading these forum posts and other sources, is that the theories keep evolving which normal when we really are just on our way to understanding what is happening. I remember reading so many posts in the past that all cars with an IMS were doomed, all engines with Lokasil liners are doomed to scoring or D chunks, you have to break your car in like you stole it ( as opposed to what is stated in the owner's manual) and that you should not use Mobil 1.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that there are some real experts that are truly working to improve the knowledge of the workings of these cars and to provide good solutions to the weaknesses. I am just not sure we have figured out all of the cause/effect issues yet.

The experts are correct in letting us know what can happen. The airlines do this every time we prepare to depart in an airliner and yet I did still fly ( literally thousand of flights for me and, yet, I am still here). The risks are real but....

SFZ GT3

Thanks Charles and Baz for the replies. And I am definitely looking forward to the updated report from Baz on scoring factors and conditions. Charles, you got me for a case of DI oil. Ordered it last night!

tinkerbill

I read most of the messages on this but don't remember any discussion of over-revs?
Was that discussed/examined? Significant over-revs would certainly cause higher loadings on those bearings and this could have happened at any time in the history of the engine.
Bill

black997er

I’m curious about this too Bronz. What did your DME report look like? Thanks!

Mike Murphy

You make good points, but car manufacturers should design for this, because just think of how many times this happens. It not unusual for new cars to be treated this way - any new car. So that’s millions and millions of cars.

bronz

No over-rev report. Car is PDK. While over revs can happen with PDK, it is very unlikely.

Petza914

Actually impossible I believe. The DME overrev ranges are different between the .1 and .2 cars. Where's as in .1s ranges 1 and 2 are overrevs, in the .2 cars, ranges 1 and 2 are below redline so with a PDK you may see range 1 and 2 overrevs logged, but they're technically overrevs, just high revs, and there's no way to money shift a PDK, which is really what creates overrevs.

Wayne Smith

You can hit the rev limiter on a PDK and I have read that on steep downhills it is possible to do worse.

But it would be highly unlikely to see a lot of abuse with a PDK.

code7rpd

When rebuilding with LN Nickies, is the potential for bore scoring eliminated?

black997er

Noted. It is possible to rev high before the engine is fully warmed up though, and unfortunately that is not captured in any logged ECU variables but I doubt any sensible owner would do this intentionally.

tinkerbill

You have had the car for 11,000 miles and were using Castrol Edge with excellent oil analysis reports. Then you changed to Motul and 1500-2000 miles later the engine is having problems. I'm curious why you switched to Motul and exactly which Motul product you used?
Bill

Charles Navarro

Nikasil is very resistant to scoring, much more so than Alusil, Lokasil, or Cast/Ductile Iron. Oerlikon's SUMEbore coating (of which there are several different versions) is about the only other cylinder process proven to be as durable as Nikasil with some added benefits over Nikasil.

However, no cylinder solution is 100% impervious to damage when the engine is not operating properly, like with a leaky injector, or conditions like a vacuum leak that lead to over-fuelling.

Flat_Six_

whats the best test to run to check for overfueling? oil analysis a good way to look into it?