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Guys, l turned my PMs off after getting bombarded with questions about this. Then l started getting messages about it through the support system on the flat 6 Innovations site.
This failure is not out of the ordinary. The sky is not falling, and there’s no reason to build an Ark.
These things are entirely why l was reserved about sharing the findings, especially on a forum. We’ve gotten way off track with a lot of posts in this thread.
At the end of the day things are ending up about as good as they can be for Bronz. His damage will lead to about the least expensive procedure that we offer, based on the failure, and collateral damage. Likely it will be even less money than l had quoted him originally, based on what l saw today, as l finished up the teardown.
Things still have to be measured, and l still need to magnaflux the crank, but it looks like Bronz won the lottery as far as our customers go. This is about as good as it gets.
Guys...patience is a virtue...Don't chase the messenger away!...This said by a 996 guy who lives with these types of possibilities every time I start my car. Take a deep breath. It will be ok.
Bummer you were slammed with pm's and at the FSI support network.
Well that is great news for Bronz as far as cost to fix! Looking forward to hearing the final outcome.
Sounds like the 4.0 upgrade may not necessary or part of the solution for Bronz and he will save some cash.
Although that 4.0 is awfully tempting at this point No pressure Bronz
Bummer you were slammed with pm's and at the FSI support network.
Well that is great news for Bronz as far as cost to fix! Looking forward to hearing the final outcome.
Sounds like the 4.0 upgrade may not necessary or part of the solution for Bronz and he will save some cash.
Although that 4.0 is awfully tempting at this point No pressure Bronz
We’ll see where it goes. The cash savings come from the collateral damages thdidn;t exist as l had hypothesized after viewing the video.
The suspense thickens.......where the changes on oil analysis the result of bore scoring or some other catastrophic metal on metal wear? That also resulted in engine function abnormal noise? What was that large plastic appearing particulate in the oil pan?
The suspense thickens.......where the changes on oil analysis the result of bore scoring or some other catastrophic metal on metal wear? That also resulted in engine function abnormal noise? What was that large plastic appearing particulate in the oil pan?
l knew we were dealing with adhesive wear when l saw the degredation of the anti- wear package. The trend data shows that clearly.
The wear metals that were NOT present told me what was failing. Of course, to do this you have to precisely know the elemental composition of the components within the engine. The oil analyst at Blackstone didn’t know that, and didn’t spot what l did.
Without going into a lengthy diatribe with a ton of detail like I've done in some other threads, the DT40 additive package holds up better for more miles so the viscosity numbers in the UOA are stronger. Also has higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorous to protect the valve train.
Here's a UOA from my wife's car - mine doesn't have enough oil changes to show this kind of lengthy comparison. The Motul blew away the Mobil 1 with the M1 additive package showing significant breakdown in as few as 3,000 miles. Then I switched to Motul and later to the DT40. Here's a comparison between the Motul and the DT40. Viscosity holds up a bit better and the oil gets slightly less acidic.
I can go back further and dig up sheets that had the M1 and Motul together too, but not on my phone.
Oh, and the most important reason - because Jake says so
l knew we were dealing with adhesive wear when l saw the degredation of the anti- wear package. The trend data shows that clearly.
The wear metals that were NOT present told me what was failing. Of course, to do this you have to precisely know the elemental composition of the components within the engine. The oil analyst at Blackstone didn’t know that, and didn’t spot what l did.
So I guess again, what specific wear metal? Because in his UOA nothing really stood out. Zinc was low but not crazy low, same with Molly.
So does the increase in aluminum and silicon represent the breakdown of the alusil coating on the cylinder walls and or pistons(not sure if they are coated)?
If so the ? is what is responsible for this? Dissimilar metal piston skirt to wall wear, piston ring wear, non optimal wrist pin offset, non uniform injector spray pattern causing oil wash and lubrication failure, some combination of the preceding? Or something other than the above? Does the lack of appreciable increase in iron tell us the crank,cams bearings are not a culprit? Just spitballing
Just splitting hairs here, but the entire block on the 9A1 is Alusil. Copied from Wikipedia: "Alusil as a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy (EN AC-AlSi17Cu4Mg / EN AC-48100 or A390) contains approximately 78% aluminium and 17% silicon."
Cylinder scoring for sure. The increase in aluminum along with silicon says everything.
Called it!
Also wish some of the old timers would find another place to play out their feuds! So much bs back and forth about nothing really, just personal opinions.
If scoring, then as a result of the breakdown of the pistonskirt antiwear coating? Due to lubrication failure, inadequate lubrication, overheating due to lack of cooling, dissimilar metal expansion on warm up? So many ?’s. Is it #6 on the thrust side of the cylinder?
Just got off the phone with Jake and he will have a video for you guys by next week explaining and showing everything so im not even going to go into any details as he will be able to describe and show it better.
Also we have decided to go 4.0 (Stage 2) build which has some forged/billet goodies in there. Thanks to no collateral damage that saved me some money. When i reached out beginning of this month, Jake penciled me in for end of August completion slot and now hes backed up til early spring of 2020!
Planning on visiting Flat 6 shop sometime in the spring time as well
02-05-2019, 07:09 PM
No pressure Bronz 
