bgoetz

qikqbn

The original diagnosis was not confirmed or made public at first. Jake made a preliminary diagnosis based on his observations when he got the engine. Jake then relayed this info to Bronz and they decided to wait until further inspection and breakdown of the engine components to see if indeed his initial diagnosis was correct.. Post #174
Bronz confirmed Jake's original diagnosis and it looks like Bore scoring is an issue. We are all waiting to hear and see the video explaining what caused this to happen....stay tuned Petza914 ;^)

Flat6 Innovations

Petza914

Thanks Jake. I'll try to be patient

Curuis how many 9A1 engines with a failure that wasn't directly attributed to the owner doing something stupid (money shift, running with too little oil, etc) have been through your shop? Are we talking 10 or 100 or other and can you rank the failures from most frequent to least frequent?

Thanks.

sandwedge

Sorry for the slight hijack but at least perhaps somewhat related. Why DT40 instead of Mobil 1 for the 997's?

Petza914

Without going into a lengthy diatribe with a ton of detail like I've done in some other threads, the DT40 additive package holds up better for more miles so the viscosity numbers in the UOA are stronger. Also has higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorous to protect the valve train.

Here's a UOA from my wife's car - mine doesn't have enough oil changes to show this kind of lengthy comparison. The Motul blew away the Mobil 1 with the M1 additive package showing significant breakdown in as few as 3,000 miles. Then I switched to Motul and later to the DT40. Here's a comparison between the Motul and the DT40. Viscosity holds up a bit better and the oil gets slightly less acidic.

I can go back further and dig up sheets that had the M1 and Motul together too, but not on my phone.

Oh, and the most important reason - because Jake says so

Doug H

I am sure you already know that number given your relationship with Jake, but its like you and qkqnb are obsessed and using Bronz's failure thread for blatantly obvious reasons/agenda.

Look, I agree 1,000%. Put the total numbers of both the M96/M97 and 9A1 rebuilds done to provide some perspective on both engines and break it down by cause of failure and year. That would be awesome. I am all about full disclosure.

As I have said, I am not vested to a .1 or a .2 NA. Although I would love to get another 997 to put back, I will happily opt for a Mezger car if 9A1 will also prove to be a basket case long term.

My ONLY issue with Jake related to when he seemed to claim to have identified an easy, simple solution to prevent bore scoring, but said he would not disclose until after he had more information to confirm. Again, I may have misunderstood that comment so I asked several times for clarification as it sounded like he had a fix, but did not want to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs. I don't recall him responding. If true, why not disclose and help people avoid costly rebuilds?

Petza914

Wow, defensive much?

I don't have an agenda and I don't know the number of 9A1 failures that Jake has seen - that's why I asked the question. I want to know if the 9A1 is as great as it seems to be or if it has some weaknesses, and if so, what those weaknesses are - nothing more, nothing less. "Blatantly obvious reasons" - it's not obvious to me, so clue me in if there's something blatantly obvious about asking an expert a question.

I also don't claim that the M96 / M97 is a great design. I've seen the inside of a couple and see the deficiencies. You're a much stronger proponent of the 9A1 than I am of the M97 - I just happen to own 2 of the M97 where the deficiencies are pretty well understood by now. I think the 9A1 probably has weaknessss too, but instead of sticking my head in the sand and ignoring what those might be, would rather know what they are in case I ever decide to buy one. Also, since the 997.2 and my Cayenne Turbo S are a similar vintage and both Porsche DFI motors, what I learn about the 997. 2 may have applicability to my other car even though the engine configuration is completely different. DFI Cayennes are seeing bore scoring, especially the first year 2008s before the honing process was changed for the 2009 model year (9PA AN1 engine #s).

This thread is our opportunity to learn that information from the guy who has it. The only thing blatantly obvious to me from my question is my desire for accurate information to augment my knowledge base.

Flat6 Innovations

Sporty

Let Jake do his job. All will be answered in due and factual course when ready. It's not an entitlement that he shares this or any information for that matter its a privilege to us Rennlisters. Be patient.

doclouie

qikqbn

Doug... If you think we have an "agenda" to use Bronz' unfortunate event as a way of making a point that is very sad and you don't know me or Petza at all. I am sorry that is your view of Petza and I. I realize there are a few threads where we dug our heals in deep into the trenches and defended the 997.1 against an army of naysayers, fear mongers, pessimists and haters, with only a few having actual collateral damage due to the M97/M96. I in no way will make light of anyone's loss of an engine or the actual possibility of engine failures. It sucks really bad when this happens, but to be honest, sometimes I felt completely alone in taking a stand for the 997.1, but I felt I had to be one voice out there protecting the future reputation of a 911 model that does not deserve all the hate. To me it has only been a source of joy. 20 years, 4 different M96/m97 engines and 300,000 combined miles with absolutely no issues. I did not want to see something that brings me great joy being trashed on a daily basis and values plummeting. I can tell you right now that in the context of all of my posts where I may have brought other generations issues to light I did so ONLY in defense... NEVER have I initiated any attacks, or belittled anyone for the choices they have made on any generation 911 ever.

If you did really know me, then you would know that I am an optimist and enjoy encouraging others and sharing information. At least that's how I hope I come across most of the time... who knows, maybe everyone on this forum thinks I am an a-hole
If so, my apologies, that is not my intention nor my desire...ever.

As most of us here, I am blessed and fortunate to be a Porsche owner. This forum is where I like to come to share in other's experiences and see the joy they get from their 911's. I love to learn as much as I can about these Pcars and share my own experiences if I can help others. I have genuine concern for others when they have a breakdown, but I also equally, and even more so, enjoy seeing the successes and solutions others share.

This is a rare situation where Jake has decided to share, for the moment, his insight on the 997.2 / 9A1 platform. I understand Jake does not want to give away trade secrets, but I for one would really like to see how this turns out. The failure points, the solutions, and the final outcome will be documented and will also be a great record for Bronz to have if he keeps it or even share with any future buyers if he so chooses to sell it.

I have no agenda, other than wanting the best outcome for Bronz.

TheBruce

Doug, brother, every time you post you crush a little piece of my soul.

aaks38

Bronze, i was curious is your car parked outside on cold nights, when this occured?

Thanks

bronz

No its garage kept year round.