sandwedge

That bothers me too. First time Porsche buyers come here for guidance and advice, some perhaps before pulling the trigger on what's bordering on what they can afford to begin with. Many know enough to ask about the IMS and many of those who respond here still assure these novices that the IMS on -06 through -08 997's is a complete "non issue". Non-issue to me translates to problem solved which most of us know was not the case until the IMS was eliminated with the 9A1 engine.

No discussion.....the risk of failure was greatly reduced with the larger bearing but I don't think it serves a first time buyer worrying about a $25,000 engine replacement well to assure him it's a "non-issue" on the later 997.1's. Again, the failure rate is minuscule on later 997.1's but the difference between minuscule and non-issue may well make the difference in some buyer's decision to buy or not. Why not tell it like it is? It's close to a non-issue but not a 100% non issue.

bgoetz

jimwood

jimwood

sandwedge

I don't recall anyone (including myself) saying that engine failures on 997.2's is a non issue. As you say, this thread seems to suggest just the opposite. I recall plenty of people saying that IMS failures on late 997.1's is a non issue though. Two separate issues since the 997.2 doesn't have an IMS. Doesn't mean it can't fail for other reasons though. For what reason, we may learn from this thread eventually.

Petza914

Of course this is an accurate statement and how it should be presented vs. the "non-issue" talk tract.

Problem is if a first time buyer is set on owning a 911, the price difference between the 997.2 everyone recommends he purchase and the 997.1 he can probably afford to purchase is $8-$10k, which is about half the cost of the engine replacement that he has a less than 5% chance of needing if he buys a late 05 though 08 car that has the larger bearing, or if he doesn't have a failure, probably 3-4 years worth of upkeep to the car. Someone who is better at probability and statistics than I could run the analysis with price difference vs failure probability and provide for a defacto mathematical answer on statistically which is the right decision to make - buying 997.2 for $10k more or 997.1s for $10k less. Of course, just like investing, everyone has different risk and reward tolerance - some people invest in CDs with a guaranteed rate of return and virtually 0 risk, others in mutual funds that have more risk but also more potential reward, and still others in different investments that have a much higher upside and also a downside.

If you're a CD type guy, and you can afford the .2, buy it and hope you don't have a black-sheep motor that happens to fail. If you're a mutual fund guy, decide whether the reward of finally owning a 997 that's within your budget, with the risk of a 75% loss, is something you can handle, or if it's not. If it's not, buy something else (maybe an Infiniti, Nissan, or Toyota), or completely change the risk model with an early 05 that you can spend a couple grand on to replace the IMS bearing and further reduce the risk of a major failure - keeping the flow of the analogy, that's like buying insurance on your investment - except it's a one-time premium.

Most of us here bought the car we bought for specific reasons - price, risk vs reward, 997.2s not yet available so no choice in the matter, found one that checked all the boxes, rare modified examples that don't ever come up for sale (like in my case), or many other reasons. The .2 guys will always be in the camp of never considering owning a .1, which is why they bought a .2. The .1 guys either aren't that worried about a low-percentage failure, couldn't afford a .2, weren't educated about the differences, or bought for a different reason, but the same information and perspectives keep permeating these threads without any new information, so I'm not sure I see the point of the further discussion, especially in this thread, where the real goal is for us to find out what happened to this particular 9A1 motor, which I believe we will. If Jake wants to add further insight as to how many (or maybe how common) this type of failure is, that's even better. The back and forth between generations just mucks up the real point of the thread. Are a couple statistics of 9A1 motor failures going to start an offload epidemic - I doubt it. Is it going to lead to potentially some new information about how to protect and take care of these particular motors to have a chance and preventing it from happening to your motor - maybe. Could be something as simple as recommending the timing chain tensioners get preventatively replaced every 60,000 miles or some other tidbit from the guy that sees or hears of most of these failures - who knows, and even if so, how many people will follow that advice? We know the recipe for giving the 997.1 the best chance of survival, but how many are still running with the OEM filter canisters, regular temperature thermostats, water pumps with metal impellers, water pumps running until failure, large IMS bearings with the grease seal still installed, original timing chain tensioners, lower quality motor oils, etc - I bet a lot - and then they're upset and disappointed when their engines fail. I feel bad for the uninformed, but all of this information is out there, and in multiple threads, if someone seeks it out, and guys like Jake and Charles frequently chime in here to help reinforce it (thank you guys). People can poo-poo what they say, but no one has seen more of these failed motors than those 2 guys, so ignore or disagree with their recommendations at your own risk, and then don't talk about what a piece of junk the design of a specific motor was because you didn't do what was known to help take care of it..

Stepping off of the

now, and looking forward to the information when available from Jake and Bronz.

Doug H

Doug H

5%? Bore scoring alone is 12.73% in the above poll for 997.1s and then through in the IMS which I recall also being in the teens before someone combined both 997.1s and 997.2s in the same poll . . . Why the heck did someone add all of the 997.2 no IMS failure votes to the 997.1 no votes when the .2 does not even have an IMS?

Then add to that that many could have no clue they have scoring and will be oblivious to it until it gets bad, that +/- 20% combined IMS and bore scoring number could be in mid to upper 20% range or more.

I learned long ago that purchasing what seemed to be the best deal or trying to save $10k on what seemed to be a better deal can costs a whole lot more down the road when it comes to high end sports cars. The price difference may be explained in large part by those just not wanting to mess with the potential headache and I certainly think the extra $10k is very well spent.

Doug H

Lol, where do you get you info/numbers? Internet rumors and gossip?

Had about a dozen V8 Ferraris including 3 Challenge cars, a Diablo 6.0 and 2 Murcis. The Gallardo in my sig is my wife's that she purchased for herself before we met.

I will pick up another 458 when my DB11 comes off lease in a few months. The 12,500 was about $1k and the 37,500 runs about $2k for the 458. Annual fluids +/- $500 depending upon who does them. Majors for the belt cars were about $3.5k (360) to $6K (355) done at 30k miles or 5 years if memory serves me correct. Been a while since I had a belt change.

bgoetz

Doug H

Fined

Hopefully folks who come to the board looking for information will have the wherewithal to recognize that posts from users who joined last month after getting their first 911 don't hold a lot of weight in comparison to folks who have had a lot of these cars and been active in the community for a decade or three. I'm new around here, and am glad to be able to learn a thing or two from some of the elder guys that have more than just an opinion gained from the last few months.

wildbilly32

Well said. Unfortunately, some feel they have to defend their stance as being irrefutable which can turn threads into pissing matches and I'm not talking about trolls. I can see where such exchanges could run newbys away due to the snarkiness. These forums are excellent for learning and sharing information. Can't we all just get along?

Mike Murphy

bgoetz