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997.2 3.8 Engine Failure

 
Old 12-28-2018, 02:00 AM
  #61  
bronz
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So i sent out a sample for UOA today and dropped the pan. Found 2 rubber pieces one stuck to the oil pickup tube mesh screen and the other one floating around. I also found the metal piece thats shiny and smooth on both sides and its slightly bent. The magnet is able to pick it up. I didnt see too much metal particles in the oil, there were some but i would say that oil filter housing had more.. Any ideas were the rubber and that type of metal could come from?

I still have hope that i will not need complete engine rebuild.

Heres what it looks like up there with a pan dropped, cant really see much without boroscope. Was hoping to see part of the chain or the crank but oil pump is in the way and i dont think i want to be digging deeper. I just wanted to see how much metal there was in a pan but ill have a shop probably take it from here.








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Old 12-28-2018, 02:47 AM
  #62  
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That would make me feel better than a pile of metal in the sump. It will be interesting to see what that is from.
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Old 12-28-2018, 03:26 AM
  #63  
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I don't really know what I'm talking about, but it looks like that plastic got chewed up by the timing chain. Maybe the timing chain rail failed?
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:00 AM
  #64  
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I don't think you're looking at engine failure here. The black pieces are sealant or broken off from plastic item; the metal a piece of flashing from assembly process. Clean prior UOAs, no check engine light and lack of debris in pan makes me think source of noise you've heard is external to engine, such as water pump, alternator, AC compressor or serpentine belt tensioner.

Last edited by swingwing; 12-29-2018 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Added wording, sentence.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:11 AM
  #65  
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UPDATE:

Pulled the airbox out to check the belt tensioner. Its completely shot, and doesnt even spring back up after you apply pressure with 30mm wrench. You need to lift it back in place. Ordered new hydraulic tensioner, lever and roller. Still doesnt explain the particles in the oil, but hopfully the tensioner is the reason for the loud banging noise.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:46 AM
  #66  
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Edited: I misread belt tensioner as chain tensioner. Two very different things.

The failed belt tensioner could very well be the source of your noise, but it wouldn’t cause the debris you found.

Originally Posted by bronz View Post
UPDATE:

Pulled the airbox out to check the belt tensioner. Its completely shot, and doesnt even spring back up after you apply pressure with 30mm wrench. You need to lift it back in place. Ordered new hydraulic tensioner, lever and roller. Still doesnt explain the particles in the oil, but hopfully the tensioner is the reason for the loud banging noise.

Last edited by rw229; 12-29-2018 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:49 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by bronz View Post
UPDATE:

Pulled the airbox out to check the belt tensioner. Its completely shot, and doesnt even spring back up after you apply pressure with 30mm wrench. You need to lift it back in place. Ordered new hydraulic tensioner, lever and roller. Still doesnt explain the particles in the oil, but hopfully the tensioner is the reason for the loud banging noise.
All I can say is good luck. You have a lot more guts than I do. With metal and plastic particles in the engine oil my car would have been at a dealer or an indy long ago.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:19 PM
  #68  
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Hopefully you found it. Bad serpentine belt tensioner is causing the noises. I don’t think it’s the timing chain “bouncing around”. If it was, wouldn’t it have caused the valves and pistons to collide?
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:28 PM
  #69  
Charles Navarro
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That is my concern. These engines typically have little to no debris in them at every service. We always drop the sumps at time of oil change and never find debris unless there is a failure in process.
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Old 12-29-2018, 04:42 PM
  #70  
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Pulled out the tensioner this morning. First of all the pivot bolt for tensioner lever was not even tight, i was able to undo it with my fingers! Secondly the bushings are very loose and can be seen in this video. Prettt sure theyre not supposed to be like that but i will compare once i get the new parts from Pelican.

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Old 12-29-2018, 05:11 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by bronz View Post
Pulled out the tensioner this morning. First of all the pivot bolt for tensioner lever was not even tight, i was able to undo it with my fingers! Secondly the bushings are very loose and can be seen in this video. Prettt sure theyre not supposed to be like that but i will compare once i get the new parts from Pelican.

http://youtu.be/pWmeO_MKasU
Dude. I hope that’s the banging noise!
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Old 12-30-2018, 03:54 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by bronz View Post
UPDATE:

Pulled the airbox out to check the belt tensioner. Its completely shot, and doesnt even spring back up after you apply pressure with 30mm wrench. You need to lift it back in place. Ordered new hydraulic tensioner, lever and roller. Still doesnt explain the particles in the oil, but hopfully the tensioner is the reason for the loud banging noise.
To me those plastic ring pieces look like the ring on top of the 1L oil jugs that remains when you snap and remove the plastic oil cap. Could they have fallen into the engine when the oil was changed ?
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:51 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by sandwedge View Post
All I can say is good luck. You have a lot more guts than I do. With metal and plastic particles in the engine oil my car would have been at a dealer or an indy long ago.
Im with you. With all that crap floating around in the engine (plastic and metal!) who knows whats going on in that engine. Even if it is the tensioner wouldnt you want a pro to have a look at it before you crank it up?
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:32 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by vern1 View Post
Im with you. With all that crap floating around in the engine (plastic and metal!) who knows whats going on in that engine. Even if it is the tensioner wouldnt you want a pro to have a look at it before you crank it up?
I agree... except my experience is a bit different (no surprise here eh?). What exactly will say a dealership do when you drop the car off? I will tell you exactly what they will do: they will start it up. This happened to me with my first engine failure in my 2000 Boxster S. The thing was clanking like metal ***** in a box. I told the dealer this.... they rolled the car off of the truck and then the tech said to me.... as a few were standing around staring at it...." start it up!" So I did.... the clanking was heard to the moon and back. They stared at it for say 30 seconds (way more than required BTW), and then said "shut it off". The tech then said "sounds like you will need a new engine". Boy, these guys were sharp!

Peace
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:49 PM
  #75  
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Haha, ya i guess thats one way to do it! Maybe the dealership should be avoided as that doesnt sound like the best diagnostic technique!
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