gmorat

Sorry about the length of this story but there’s no way to condense it down. Anyway….


I’m looking for a good 997.2 6spd in almost any color apart from yellow or black. Really, I don’t mind once it’s low mileage and in great condition. I found a likely candidate on Autotrader. It was a 2012 997.2 in white with a black interior and the description sounded like a real garage queen.

Super clean 911 997.2 from the last batches of 997.2 before the switch over to 991. Everything is stock from Porsche. Only modification was installed a OEM Sports Exhaust. No dings or scratches. The wheels are super clean no scrapes or dings with 1 exception small nick( see pictures). I'm the original owner. Need to find this baby a new home that will take care of her. Service just completed. But will need a new fresh set of tires. Never tracked. Always Garaged. Zero Issues. Zero Accidents clean carfax Original Owner. , A/C ice cold, All scheduled maintenance, All records, Always garaged, Custom paint/graphics Excellent condition, Factory GPS system, Fully loaded with all the goodies. Looks & drives great, Mostly highway miles, Must see, Never seen snow, No accidents, Non-smoker, One owner, Satellite radio, Title in hand, Upgraded sound system, Very clean interior, Well maintained

It absolutely needed new tires but was otherwise described as perfect. The seller was looking for crazy money but I contacted him and said that if he was ever in a place where the price was realistic, contact me and we can talk. He emailed a few weeks later to say he was open to offers and we started to horse-trade. We came to terms if the car checked out for an agreed sum and I asked the forums for help in finding a place in Pasadena to perform the PPI. A number of people recommended House Auto and I contacted them to see about getting this done as quickly as possible. As it turns out, the 911’s owner had used them in the past and while that could be considered a conflict of interest if they had a relationship, I figured it was worth the risk and forged ahead. The car was inspected by House Auto and apart from a cracked but not leaking coolant reservoir bottle and a few dings and nicks on the nose, which was to be expected, it passed with flying colors. Nothing of the condition of the interior of the car was flagged. The owner and I agreed to move forward and I ordered tires to be shipped to House Automotive for them to install so I could fly to LA from Marin County and then drive the car home. After a certain amount of scheduling Hell to do with when the tires would arrive, when the current owner could drop the car in and when I could get to LA we finally settle on a date for me to fly down which I did on Monday the 17th of December. The seller picked me up from the airport and I drove the car to the bank to complete the transaction after I had inspected the car in person. I had the keys in my pocket as I started to go around the car and what I saw on the inside made my heart sink.

There were stains on drips on the surfaces, the frunk was filled with debris, the door pockets looked like he’d been trying to grow potatoes in them and the seat backs were punctured in a few places. There was a big blue stain in the middle of the passenger seat which he said was sunscreen or something. One wheel had curb-rash that extended 50% around the circumference of the wheel. The car wasn’t a well preserved 28k mile garage queen at all, it was a car that easily looked like it had 90k miles from a none-to-careful owner.

The owner tried to explain away the condition and cleanliness as a problem caused by him hurting his foot and was unable to detail the car or his kids causing the damage while sitting in the back, I was adamant that this wasn’t the car for me. While I’d spent countless hours and about $2k to get to this point, I wasn’t going to spend a penny more on this car. I gave him back his keys and told him that the deal was off. I called my twin brother who works in Burbank and we met for an early lunch and he dropped me back to Burbank airport where I booked another one way flight home. While spending time with my brother was great and we laughed about what a debacle this was, it should never have happened.

I called House Automotive yesterday to see how on earth this car was given nothing but positive ticks for everything apart from a coolant reservoir bottle and they said that they would talk to the tech and get back to me. I wasn’t particularly shocked when they didn’t.

I get it, buyer beware. I honestly thought I’d asked all the questions and done my due diligence. I used a company as my representative to inspect the car that had been highly recommended on forums which I read every day but I feel that House Automotive really dropped the ball on this one. I don’t know why. Maybe they knew him, maybe they didn’t understand what somebody trying to purchased a one owner, 28k mile ‘garage queen’ was looking for. Doesn’t matter really. Whenever I see a thread asking for recommendations for a place in LA, I will be sure to pass this on to them.

I’m not angry, I was happy enough to NOT buy that car as I would have been unhappy had I bought it regardless of the issues. I realized I messed up and exactly where I did but I paid a supposedly reputable company to be my eyes and ears and they messed up big also.

If you see a tatty 2012 99.2 in white with a black interior for sale and are thinking about it….run don’t walk away

rickdogg82

I think a PPI is a great indicator of the mechanical condition of the car. But in my opinion an inspection by a fellow forum member (or car enthusiast in general) is best for cosmetics.

Sounds like it turned out for the best. You read about buyers purchasing cars sight unseen so luckily this wasn't the case here.

C4SDayton

That is sad, but has happened to several I am sure. High res pics and facetime can be helpful. Plenty of slobs own nice cars. I thought I had found a great 997.1 Targa 4S until I found out it had a new clutch at 20k an another at 30k. If someone can't park without getting curb rash or rubbing front bumper, I assume there is only more bad to be found.

Presto

wow what a terrible buying experience. While a PPI can miss some small cosmetic issues, big stains and damaged seats etc should have been noticed. Were the new tires installed on the car already? Were you able to return them for a refund?

gmorat

No, they're on the car.

G

ADias

Ouch! Right you were to cut your losses and walk. The PPI shop should have uncovered that and they did not. Shame on them!

ADias

The seller should refund you the price of the car. Shame on him if he doesn't do that!

HenryPcar

Networking with fellow Porsche enthusiast, especially PCA members that are knowledgeable will definitely win hands down compared with Porsche independent shops that does PPI. Think about it. Dealers are not likely to undertake PPI because of liability issues. Any mishaps on problem areas that they miss will come back and bite them. Private independents charge at most $300, and I always wonder how thorough could they go through a car, especially for customers that are not within their locales. A seller perhaps could provide all meaningful documents to back up the maintenance of the car, but quite frankly I've seen cars owned by clueless Porsche owners that never ever even pop up the engine bay throughout their ownership.

As a Porsche enthusiast myself, I find even Porsches recommended maintenance schedule won't pass my own personal standard, let alone trusting a PPI performed by any independents. There are 2 types of Porsche owners. Those that are quite clueless on the maintenance of the car and generally rely on either indys or the dealership and will proudly provide all maintenance documents for any potential buyers. On the other hand there are the old-timers who has been around Porsches a lot that are more than happy to assist other Porsche enthusiasts in scrutinizing the condition of the car. They are generally very picky and their
standards are higher that anybody. And they know a thing or two about working on their own cars. These are the Porsche owners you want to network with when you want to buy a car remotely. As a PCA member myself, I've likewise help other Porsche buyers and quite frankly I get a kick out of it.

gmorat

I hear you all. I've owned Porsche's since the early 2000's and have a 993 currently that I'm trying to do something very special with. I keep assuming that P-car owners are like me, but they either 100% are or 100% aren't. Unfortunately, if asked, 100% of them will say that absolutely are

ajayabb

That story really sucks Sorry to hear about your terrible experience.

gmorat

First world problems! I will never buy or agree to buy a car that I haven't seen or has been seen by somebody who I trust will give it the hairiest of hairy eyeballs on my behalf. That of course includes the fine folks on Rennlist and I'm happy to reciprocate for anybody needing an eye's on in the Bay Area.

G

HenryPcar

PM me. Im retired and have plenty of time. More than happy to help out anyone here in the bay area.

SpeedyD

Not a huge surprise. I looked at many, many cars and took many months in my own search for my 4S coupe. I am "sort of" in a search now to add another car for my wife (PDK) that I am hoping to get at a much lower price point than mine, which means much higher mileage and less picky about a bunch of things... it is still not an easy process, even with relaxed criteria... Remote purchasing is even more difficult.

php

That is bad luck, but walking away is definitely the right thing to do. I'm agreeing with you that one should never buy a car unseen, especially a Porsche. I agreed to buy mine out of state without seeing in person, only pics and no PPI as it was from a Porsche dealer and was low mileage and CPO. I know that absolutely does not guarantee anything, so I just consider myself lucky that it turned out to be a great car, 5+ years of ownership now and zero issues. Obviously I didn't pay until I arrived at the dealership but still, no PPI. I have read horrible stories even for CPO cars from Porsche dealerships, so always do as much homework as you can before making the purchase.

SpeedyD

BTW, there is one modern potential solution... ask the seller for them to walk you around the car live on facetime or whatever the iphone video app is... If done in daylight and with a modern phone (and if done slowly) you can at least get a good sense of the cosmetic condition of the car. It would have caught something like what you saw since you could literally ask them to move the camera around all the interior areas and would have seen the mess ...

Just an idea.