carrera4esq

I own two pristine, well maintained, garaged cars that I rarely drive - a 2012 997 GTS, 12k miles (msrp $130k) pdk, vert; and a tastefully modified 2007 ZO6, 13k miles (msrp $75K). I am the second owner of both. My dd is a Raptor. I had this "great" idea that I was going to avoid the duplicative costs of maintenance, insurance, registration , etc., and open up garage space for my wife's Mini S vert by purchasing one "super" car. After researching such a car within my budget, I came to the conclusion that a 2008-09 Ferrari F430 F1 Spider fit the bill, understanding, of course, the roughly $150 per month that Ferrari maintenance works out to - if nothing actually breaks. Eventually I came across a "mint" condition 2008 F430, 7500 mile, msrp $275K (estimated by dealer), at my local Ferrari dealership on consignment. After a week or so of haggling, a fair trade in value for my two vehicles was agreed upon and I arranged a test drive and thorough inspection of the F430.
Upon my arrival at the Ferrari dealership, the F430 appeared ready for me and, at first glance, looked incredible. We ran a paint meter and it all checked out. I was told that the car passed a 100 and something point Ferrari inspection, was Ferrari certified, warrantied for one year, and "needed nothing."
I referred the salesman to the Carfax and Autocheck, and it appeared the car had anywhere between 3 and 5 owners and he instructed me that 3-5 owners for a ten year old Ferrari is not uncommon as most Ferrari's that age have many more.
It went downhill from there.
I asked for the window sticker and was told Ferrari can't give me one as the only one is issued to the original owner.
I asked for the msrp and was told Ferrari was not able to tell me but the dealership could estimate it for me.
I asked for the maintenance history and was told that Ferrari computers are not linked and, regardless, the dealer will only give the information to the owner who received the service due to "privacy concerns." I was, however, able to contact the current owner (who owned it all of 5 months), and, as vague as one can be, he told me he "invested" $20k in repairs for the replacement of "brake lines."

Upon inspection of the car I found several issues which I pointed out to the Ferrari salesman:

(1) the passenger side door did not perfectly align with the rear quarter panel - explanation - "it's a Ferrari, it is hand made and this is common on these cars;"
(2) the rear taillights wiggled a bit - explanation - "it's a Ferrari, it is hand made and this is common on these cars" nothing that a little epoxy can't fix;
(3) Wiggly side mirrors - explanation - "it's a Ferrari, it is hand made and this is common on these cars and can be fixed;"
(4) front bumper was crooked - explanation - "it's a Ferrari, it is hand made and this is common on these cars" or Xpel installer put the bumper on incorrectly;
(5) all the the buttons seemed prematurely worn - explanation - "it's a Ferrari, this is common on these cars, usually they are sticky, but these are actually in great shape;"
(6) the glass on the rear view mirror was noticeably peeling - explanation - "it's a Ferrari and this is common on these cars;"
(7) incredibly, the paint on the front doors jambs was half peeled off - explanation - "it's a Ferrari, it is hand made and this is common on these cars."

Then the test drive. I was instructed (i) to make sure to place the car in neutral whenever coming to a stop or the clutch will become prematurely worn, (ii) not drive it in auto mode as the clutch will become prematurely worn, and (iii) never, never put the car in reverse (unless absolutely necessary), or , as you know, the clutch will become prematurely worn. I was also warned that, because this is a Ferrari (of course), I should expect some rattles from the rear view mirror, side view mirrors and other various interior components as this is "normal."
The drive went well, sort of. The engine sounded truly intoxicating - except for the rattling of some miscellaneous Ferrari component that was actually louder than the engine and vibrated through the car. That, incidentally, was "not normal" and in need of repair as the salesman advised me.
Despite Ferrari offering to repair all the flaws and lower the price by $10k, needless to say, I decided to keep my two flawless cars. I went home that evening, looked at both my vehicles snug in my garage, and slept well. The build quality of my 911 GTS

and ZO6 was superior to this particular Ferrari.... But it was still a Ferrari.
Maybe a 458 someday though????

David993S

Sounds to me like the salesperson didn't know what they were talking about - on a lot of the items you describe. Those issues are not "common on these cars". 430's are great cars and very reliable.....but I'd stay away from the one you were considering.

DesmoSD

I've never owned a Ferrari but I've owned several Ducati's so I sort of understand how the Italian's do the things that they do compared to the Germans and even the Japanese manufacturers.

When I looked at 360's and 430's when the market bottomed out, I remember watching Dan's videos about the taillights. IMO, I wouldn't settle for a 430 unless it's gated.

php

I think you made the right decision. Just look at that 2012 pristine GTS! I think the 997 GTS will only go up in value in the future (at least hold it's value), and I would never trade one in for a Ferrari. I want to own one sometime in my life, but I won't be getting rid of a 997 GTS for one. Add to the collection? Ok. If I can't afford to have both? Then no Ferrari for me This is coming from a guy that was way more Ferrari kid than Porsche kid growing up. I just can't get past the "carefulness" one would need owning a Ferrari. Shouldn't do this. Shouldn't do that. Don't drive in rain. Be super careful where ever you go. That headache is not worth it .

Devee8

All of those (problems) are common with F430's. And yes its a Ferrari thing. You should see the Testarossa I worked on today... they are Italian and ahem special......

fat_louis

I looked at F430s before deciding on a 2012 911 GTS. I just cannot trust those cars. Looking through the stack of maintenance records and sorting through the carfax of half a dozen owners was a real headache for me. Just thinking about a $6000 repair invoice made me shudder should anything happen to the transmission. Parts are also harder to come by as well with F-cars. Just like a BMW M3 gives you 8/10ths of a Porsche 911 experience, a 911 probably gives you 8/10ths of a Ferrari experience. Sure an F430 is way better than a 355 or 360 in terms of drivability and reliability, but probably not as up to par as the 458+ models as evidenced by the high prices vs the F430. I wouldn't give up the GTS unless it was for a 6 speed manual F430.

Petza914

Good call. There's a reason Ted Varick referred to them as "Italian Trash".

You already have the pretty girl from next door you've been friends with and just realized how great she is - why trade that in for a bitchy supermodel that just wants to spend your money?

ATSR

ATSR

Bruce In Philly

I think the sales rep knew exactly what he was talking about. My best friend owned three Ferraris.... all were maintenece nightmares... the panels didn't fit quite right on all of them. We have a body shop in the area certified for Ferrari... he said the panels they get from Italy all have to be re-worked on an English Wheel because.... well they just don't fit. He took me over to see another one that was in a minor accident, maybe three years old..... he put up a halogen lamp and had me get down to look across the door... the paint had runs in it that were buffed out by the factory!!!! Yes, it came from the factory that way.

My friend's three Ferraris were a pure nightmare. The service guy at the dealership told him bluntly, if you drive it, it is going to cost you.... can you believe this?!! I attended a few Ferrari get togethers with him and none of these guys knew anything about the technology... they just talked about the leather and when it came to talking about the stupid high maintenence costs, they actually had some perverse pride in it stating "it is a Thoroughbred!" of course they cost big money to maintain.

Ferrari is a joke.

I could go on...... Actually, I used to go almost exclusively to Ferrari track events with my friend. Why? Because I got tons and tons of track time. People left at lunch on the first day. The second day we start with just two run groups and move to open track time. You can't make this stuff up.

Oh heck, another story.... I had to get my Boxster S towed to the dealership..... I am sitting in the front seat with the tow truck driver....he said he hauls alot of exotic cars... I mention my friend... he lit up and said "I tow all of -name-'s cars!". No kidding.

Ok ok, one more..... I stopped into the dealership with friend.... there was a brand new, from Italy, being pushed off the showroom floor.... the owner came to pick it up and it would not come out of neutral.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

captainbaker

Ferraris are like a box of chocolates. You have to do your due diligence like the OP. The sales guy was full of crap. He knew he as a steaming pile and tried to pass it off. IIRC, the Californial and 512's are fairly robust. My TR has never left me stranded and is fairly cheap to run. $10k service every 6 years.

Doug H

I have had a 355, 360, 360 CS, 430 Challenge, 458 and a 458 Challenge. All were great cars and the 458 street is perhaps the finest car I have ever owned including a Porsche CGT and a Diablo 6.0. I drove the dog **** out of all of mine and they held up well. I know many guys that drive the dog **** out them and put miles on them worry free. The old 355 and 360 CS are still more fun to drive than my 2017 991.2 real turbo.

I pretty much purchased and drove the snot out of all of them and sold them for the same or more than what I paid for them. 8 cylinder Ferraris are definitely my favorites, but the 911 does have a back seat. I like my DB, but look very much forward to getting back into a 458 when my DB lease is up.

Die hard Porsche guy, but somewhere along the way I converted . . . oh yeah, it was right I purchased my first Ferrari in the early 2000s.

TheLex

All I can say is after watching that video is - OMG! No way would I have the patience to put up with all the weird foibles of a F car. Wrinkled airbag cover is normal? Broken tailights common?

I love and admire Ferraris. They're lovely to LOOK at but I'm not gonna put my $$$ into one because I just don't have the patience to deal with the hassle and expense of stuff that doesn't break on other cars, especially my Porsche.

Doug H

Wrinkled airbag cover and broken tail lights ain't got nothing on IMS and RMS failures and bore scoring plaguing 996s and 997.1s. Ferraris are a joy to own and drive and a 430, although not my fav Ferrari, is certainly more desirable to me and better driving experience than both the 2007 Z06 and a 997.2 GTS. I would take the 430 over both, although I do not like Vettes and would never purchase or have an older Z06.

Ferraris tend to get bad raps from those having little or no experience with them or people that cheaped out and purchased the cheapest one they could find and then failed to keep it properly maintained because they really could not afford the price of entry.

Do not, and I cannot stress this enough, purchase the lowest priced of a given Ferrari model you can find. Those good deals will end up costing you more than stepping up and buying a proper car. Purchase a proper car, keep it maintained and it will be just as reliable as older water cooled Porsches and definitely won't be as prone to paper weighting itself as 996 and 997.1s.

TheLex

I have zero experience with Ferraris. I've only admired them from afar. At one point I thought about buying one but the maintenance cost and potential for very costly repairs drove me away. That video on this thread is the only one I've ever seen on potential F car foibles.
I've driven a regular Vette. It's a pretty decent drive IMO but I don't like the interior. The plus is you can go to any of the multitude of Chevy dealers for service. The Porsche has been very reliable. I got the 997.2 based on the improved mechanicals. P dealers are very expensive but at least we have some good independents.

OTOH there is but one independent Ferrari mechanic in my entire region that I know of. The closest dealer is 3 plus hrs away. I trust you when you talk about how they drive. It's just a car that I would prefer to admire rather than own.