sailakfan

Hello all,

New to the forum and been looking for my first 911. The local dealer have listed a 2006 for $46.5K with 11,500 miles, it is a basic silver MT. The production month was 11/05, so hopefully it has the upgraded IMS. Have not checked the engine number yet. The car was serviced from day one at this dealership and the owner meticulously changed oil once a year and the dealership was able to print all the service records.

I am still leary about the IMS issue and also would like to know if this is a fair price. I can afford another $25k or so, but this will be a pleasure, weekend car. So thought this is a good price point to get my feet wet in a 911.

What do you all think?

Thanks,
Sailak

jamesinger

I would say that 11/05 is well into the upgraded IMS for the 3.8, which as priced would make sense for a C2S model but checking the number on the bottom of the motor would still be advised.

I recently got a similar car (2006 911 C2S) with similar miles for a similar price (taking into account $$$ for new PS4S, service, and a little upgrading upon delivery for me). However, I am really just straight up not worried about the IMS or bore scoring or any of that stuff because I have had cars, blown motors, rebuilt them, and enjoyed those cars before and after. If you track cars or regularly drive them hard, they break eventually. Every once in a while, something very serious breaks and it is sad. When that has happened to me, I have always upgraded whatever breaks. If I wanted a car that would never break, I would get a civic or a corolla and never rev it over 2k or lease cars or something.

Regardless, if the IMS failure rate for the 3.8, which is statistically low enough to be insignificant, is something that will haunt you and diminish your enjoyment of the car, spend the extra money and get a 997.2. People will argue all day on which car is better. Personally, I drove both and was in the market for either. For my own part, I cannot tell the difference with my butt dyno between the 997.1 and the 997.2 C2S. I drove a 997.2 C2S back to back with a 997.1C2S, and they felt very close if not the same to me. ...but that is just me, I am not a professional driver or auto journalist. The final decision for me was that I was finding pretty low optioned bare bones 997.2s for more money and then some highly optioned 997.1s for cheaper. In the end, I found a super minty 997.1 with all the boxes I wanted ticked ticked for a price that was well below a stripper 997.2 used, and so it goes...

Good Luck!!

dgjks6

Get the car. Invest the $25 just in case. If nothing happens you will have extra money. If something does happen get a rebuilt motor from Flat6 or some other reputable builder for the $25K and then you will have a truly bulletproof 911.

If it is a base (nonS) with upgraded IMS you risk is low

4Driver4

This car has the larger IMSB. Don't sweat it.

sailakfan

Hello,

Sorry for the late response, had to work last night. Thanks for the detailed reply, I had been watching the market for a while and have not come across a clean one like this with the complete service history at the dealer selling this with such low miles. This will not be my daily, just weekends and some fun trips, and no plan to track it, so I am will not be worried knowing this has the upgraded IMS. Also when it is time to replace the clutch, will check it out. But the only thing I worry is, when time comes to upgrade or some other reason to sell, will this be a show stopper for potential buyers.

This is a base with the below features, the car has brand new Michelin tires, since you mentioned PS4S.

Leather upholstery, Automatic temperature control, Power moonroof, Rain sensing wipers, Split folding rear seat, Perimeter/approach lights, Remote keyless entry, Security system

If I end up buying it, the only upgrade probably will be upgrading the stereo, so any suggestions will be appreciated.

How will this hold up the value, say in couple of years? Another confusion is, if I spent another 20k, I can get a decent 2013-2014, but have to wait for a while for something to show up in a similar condition. The 997 would have lost less value compared to a relatively newer one, correct?

Thanks,
sailakan

sailakfan

Thanks for the advice, seeing all your responses giving me more confidence and will most probably pull the trigger tomorrow.

Here is the detailed spec, sorry for the long post

Detailed Specifications

Convenience Features

• 1-touch down
• Driver vanity mirror
• Tilt steering wheel
• Air conditioning
• Garage door transmitter: HomeLink
• Front beverage holders
• Speed control
• Illuminated entry
• Telescoping steering wheel
• Automatic temperature control
• Power windows
• Passenger door bin
• Remote keyless entry
• Overhead console
• Passenger vanity mirror
• Driver door bin
• 1-touch up
• Power moonroof

Entertainment Features

• Diversity antenna
• AM/FM radio
• 1st row LCD monitors: 1
• CD player

Seats and Trim

• Leather shift ****
• Max seating capacity: 4
• Rear seats: split-bench
• Leather steering wheel
• Front seats: bucket
• Front center armrest
• Power passenger seat
• Power driver seat
• Leather upholstery
• Split folding rear seat

Specs and Dimensions

• Front headroom: 965mm (38.0")
• Turning radius: 5.3m (17.4')
• Exterior height: 1,310mm (51.6")
• Front shoulder room: 1,313mm (51.7")
• Wheelbase: 2,350mm (92.5")
• Exterior body width: 1,808mm (71.2")
• Rear headroom: 800mm (31.5")
• Front legroom: 1,057mm (41.6")
• Exterior length: 4,461mm (175.6")
• Interior cargo volume: 135 L (5 cu.ft.)
• Front hiproom: 1,356mm (53.4")

Body Exterior

• Spoiler
• Door mirrors: body-color
• Power door mirrors
• Bumpers: body-color
• Heated door mirrors

Powertrain

• Fuel economy city: 18mpg
• Fuel economy highway: 26mpg
• Variable valve control
• Sequential multi-point fuel injection
• Fuel tank capacity: 16.9gal.
• Cylinder configuration: H-6
• Engine location: rear
• Recommended fuel: premium unleaded
• Variable intake manifold
• Drive type: rear-wheel
• Number of valves: 24

Safety and Security

• Traction control
• Passenger cancellable airbag
• ABS brakes
• Electronic stability
• Perimeter/approach lights
• Security system
• Dual front side impact airbags
• 4 wheel disc brakes
• Overhead airbag
• Occupant sensing airbag
• Ignition disable
• Dual front impact airbags

Suspension/Handling

• Speed-sensing steering
• Four wheel independent suspension
• Tires: performance
• Rear anti-roll bar
• Front anti-roll bar
• Power steering
• Alloy wheels

Lighting, Visibility and Instrumentation

• Outside temperature display
• Tachometer
• Rear fog lights
• Rain sensing wipers
• Front reading lights
• Delay-off headlights
• Front fog lights
• Trip computer
• Variably intermittent wipers
• Rear window defroster

sailakfan

Thanks for the confirmation, appreciate it.

sailakfan

I know there is a premium built into the price based on the condition of the car, history and mainly dealer listed and I do not mind paying a little more.

But is this a good if not okay price for it?

Thanks.

TheBruce

Welcome to the club! You will love it.

All 2006 model year cars have the upgraded large bearing IMS. The production cutoff date was Feb 05, so you are solid. The failure rate on 06+ cars is low and insignificant. You will have some 997.2 owners on here chiming in shortly telling you the .1 is crap and you should only get a .2, especially with your budget range.

Here is my take:

- The .1 is a wonderful car and probably the best value for money sports car in the world right now. Like all cars is does have its flaws and you need to know those to make an educated buy. Despite those flaws if you do your homework, get a proper PPI, it will likely be one of the most reliable cars you've ever purchased. I put nearly 25k miles on mine as a daily driver and its never let me down once. All maintenance items in that time cost me $50-$100 in parts and a few hours of time, except replacing the clutch.
- That being said, the .2 is a better car. The DFI engine is better that the m97, has a bit more HP, and the PCM is more modern. But a similar mile and spec .2 will run you $60-65k. Its a question of whats important to you. If you want the best example of a 997 and money is secondary, spend a few months and find a 997.2. If value for money and convenience of having the car local is important, buy the 997.1 and like @dgjks6 said, invest the $25k in something else.

Maintenance items to know on the 997:

- Besides the IMS the other boogeyman is "bore scoring". Also very rare and predominantly affects cold weather cars. The symptoms are high oil consumption and black drivers exhaust tip. Eventually requires a rebuild. If the car is a warm weather I wouldn't worry about it. If it has cold weather in its history I would get the bores scoped as part of the PPI.
- Other maintenance you will run into: coolant expansion tank gets brittle with age and can crack, gas cap seal can get brittle and requires replacing, ignition switch can go bad, starter/alternator cable in the 06 can build up resistance leading to a slow crank when the engine is hot, water pumps can go bad, and some cosmetic items like the soft touch paint on the center console and AC switches.
- All these items are no more than $100 parts but if you took to an dealer the labor could add up. If you take to an indy its reasonable, if you do yourself it costs nothing but a few hours research and work.
- Other things to check: it will need the 40k mile service with new plugs, belts even though its low mile. Brake fluid needs to be flushed every 2 years. And...check the age of the tires. With such low miles they may look like they are brand new but can dry rot. Tires older than 7yrs should be replaced.

Keep us posted and good luck.

TheBruce

Oh, regarding price...I thought it was an S. An S with those miles would be priced right. However its overpriced if its a 3.6 base model. I hate to say that since I have one and would love for prices to be increasing like this...but you can get a C2S with 30-40k miles for that price.

Does it have 19" wheels or 18s?

The ride height of the base models is also higher than the S and makes them look a little awkward. I put Eibach springs on mine which drops it about an inch. They will cost you $1k installed. Looks even better than the S stance and improves handling.

sailakfan

Hello TheBruce,

Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I was aware of the bore-scoring, but the other items you listed is a good list to have going forward. I decided not to pull the trigger on this one, as the dealer would not do PPI as they already did the inspection and the tires are the original tires and needs replacement soon. It does have the 19'' wheels though, but decided to pass this and keep looking.

Really appreciate it.
Sailak

Texan Engineer

From my conversations with various Porsche mechanics in my area, the 3.6 base engine seems to be less prone (almost non-existent?) to bore scoring. At least one person told me that they give a reliability edge to the 3.6, though the usual base vs. S comparison still apply. If you can find another base model (or S, for that matter), send it to Flat6 for the IMS Solution if you really want a bulletproof 997. I don't think too many people bother to do so with the later 997s though, most don't deem it necessary.

zirrah

Do it!

PivotPoint

Sailakfan,

Good move passing on that car @$46.5k. That's high for a base 997.1 with no real options.

Do you have a preference for Cab or Coupe? Manual or Tiptronic? . Cab's and cars with tiptronic always run cheaper.

I hate to say it, but I almost see 11.5 k miles on a 13 year old car as almost a negative. These cars were meant to be driven.

Take a look at the Porsche Club of America ads, consider trial membership. They have a bunch of nicely optioned 997.1 base or Carrera 4's for mid to upper $30k, 997.1 S in low $40k range. If patient you could find a nice 997.2 Carrera S in the mid $50's. PDK is nice improvement over Tip and available in 997.2

I have a 997.1 with Sport Chrono and PSE , stick and I love it.

Good luck on your search and read all you can about the models.

alexl911

Is this really true? I've read elsewhere that only 3.8 'S' models have the larger bearing. The 3.6's are still M96/05 engines with the smaller bearing. Can anyone confirm??