Introduction: Motul
06-15-2018, 08:44 PM
#31
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
So I went to the Motul site thanks to this post. So here's the background. I have 2 Porsches, an Audi, and 2 BMW's. So I need an A40, 502 00, and LL01 oil. Used to run Mobil 1 0w40 in all the cars. Then Mobil 1 lost the LL01 rating. So since then looking for another oil to end all oil. The Castrol 0w40 seems to be a contender, but Audi and BMW recommend a 5w30 or 40, not a 0w. In all temps. So here's the question finally. If I switch all the cars to 8100 motul 5w40, can I run this all year in the Porsches? Live where we get -5 or -10 winter temps. Never below that. Rarely that low, but want to be prepared.
Yes, the 8100 X-cess 5W40 is more than suitable for that temperature range. As you stated, it is approved for BMW LL-01, VW 502 and Porsche A40. You'll be fine running a 0W vs 5W- the difference is quite small. Using a high quality synthetic for cold weather pumpability is more of a key factor at those temperatures.-Nick
Last edited by Motul; 06-16-2018 at 12:16 AM.
06-15-2018, 10:34 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Welcome and glad to have Motul here!
Question:
- What's the difference between 8100 X-cess, X-clean, X-max, Sport (all 5W-40)?
Thanks
Question:
- What's the difference between 8100 X-cess, X-clean, X-max, Sport (all 5W-40)?
Thanks
06-15-2018, 11:06 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
Invision Auto Imports on Parsons Road just south of 34 Ave carries most everything by Motul. Their hours are a bit different, as they do a lot of wholesale, but if you can plan around it, they’re good guys. Been buying Motul from them for years. If you go there, make sure you ask to check out their showroom of Bride and Edirb Seats. They’re a/the Canadian distributor, so they always have piles in stock.
Still gotta hook up with you to check out your shifter bushings!
Still gotta hook up with you to check out your shifter bushings!
06-16-2018, 12:16 AM
#34
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Good question! It all comes down to the SAPS content more or less:
- 8100 X-cess 5W40: Full SAPS
- 8100 X-max 0W40: Full SAPS
- 8100 X-clean 5W40: Mid SAPS
- Sport w/ Ester 5W40: Full SAPS
SAPS= Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulfur
In easy to understand terms, it's basically a way to identify the metallic additive content of a given oil. This addresses emission system concerns in regards to DPF and catalytic converter compatibility. SAPS is basically poisonous to these devices and the higher or FULLer the SAPS the less friendly it is on those sensitive emissions systems. When you get Mid or Low SAPS oils, you are getting more or less a more cleaner burning product as lot of the SAPS content ends up in the exhaust as oil is consumed/burned/evaporated etc.
The Sport product will have some Group 5 ester in it vs the 8100 oil line that doesn't. Group 5's have various performance advantages over Group 3 and 4 synthetics- mainly in the ability to create more power reliably, better oil film strength and have polarity as well. Keep in ind that the 8100 oils above have Porsche OEM A40 approval where the Sport does not. -Nick
06-16-2018, 01:47 AM
#35
8100 x-cess 5w40 and rbf660 user here. Love your products.
06-18-2018, 04:29 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
Hello,
Good question! It all comes down to the SAPS content more or less:
- 8100 X-cess 5W40: Full SAPS
- 8100 X-max 0W40: Full SAPS
- 8100 X-clean 5W40: Mid SAPS
- Sport w/ Ester 5W40: Full SAPS
SAPS= Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulfur
In easy to understand terms, it's basically a way to identify the metallic additive content of a given oil. This addresses emission system concerns in regards to DPF and catalytic converter compatibility. SAPS is basically poisonous to these devices and the higher or FULLer the SAPS the less friendly it is on those sensitive emissions systems. When you get Mid or Low SAPS oils, you are getting more or less a more cleaner burning product as lot of the SAPS content ends up in the exhaust as oil is consumed/burned/evaporated etc.
The Sport product will have some Group 5 ester in it vs the 8100 oil line that doesn't. Group 5's have various performance advantages over Group 3 and 4 synthetics- mainly in the ability to create more power reliably, better oil film strength and have polarity as well. Keep in ind that the 8100 oils above have Porsche OEM A40 approval where the Sport does not. -Nick
Good question! It all comes down to the SAPS content more or less:
- 8100 X-cess 5W40: Full SAPS
- 8100 X-max 0W40: Full SAPS
- 8100 X-clean 5W40: Mid SAPS
- Sport w/ Ester 5W40: Full SAPS
SAPS= Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous, Sulfur
In easy to understand terms, it's basically a way to identify the metallic additive content of a given oil. This addresses emission system concerns in regards to DPF and catalytic converter compatibility. SAPS is basically poisonous to these devices and the higher or FULLer the SAPS the less friendly it is on those sensitive emissions systems. When you get Mid or Low SAPS oils, you are getting more or less a more cleaner burning product as lot of the SAPS content ends up in the exhaust as oil is consumed/burned/evaporated etc.
The Sport product will have some Group 5 ester in it vs the 8100 oil line that doesn't. Group 5's have various performance advantages over Group 3 and 4 synthetics- mainly in the ability to create more power reliably, better oil film strength and have polarity as well. Keep in ind that the 8100 oils above have Porsche OEM A40 approval where the Sport does not. -Nick
Also, I assume Full SAPS oil would be better for higher performance engines, while may not be as clean burning or friendly to catalytic converters, right?
Last edited by alexb76; 06-18-2018 at 05:10 AM.
06-18-2018, 02:12 PM
#37
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Thanks for this explanation, so taking it further, what's the difference between X-cess and X-max? Being both Full SAPS, and both A40 approved? Why have two different oils if quite similar... also X-clean to add to confusion (looks like X-clean is more for Diesel cars, right)?
Also, I assume Full SAPS oil would be better for higher performance engines, while may not be as clean burning or friendly to catalytic converters, right?
Also, I assume Full SAPS oil would be better for higher performance engines, while may not be as clean burning or friendly to catalytic converters, right?
In regards to X-clean 5W40 being a "diesel" oil, it is somewhat true but it is important to know it has various gas engine oil approvals as well so it offers great application coverage in a single product. Porsche A40 and VW 502 are gas specific profiles that the X-clean is approved for.
Full SAPS automotive oils are generally meant for higher performance applications with strong ZDDP levels and high cleaning power. Yes, as a result of that they are not emission systems friendly compared to Mid or Low SAPS oils.- Nick
Last edited by Motul; 06-19-2018 at 02:03 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Magnus Rostadmo (07-21-2019)
06-18-2018, 10:44 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
For starters, X-cess is a 5W40 and X-max is a 0W40- we developed a 0W40 for various reasons. Mainly due to the demand for the 0W40 viscosity specifically. From a formulation point of view, the 0W40 will have improved oil flow at startup, faster oil pressure buildup vs a 5W40 which will lead to lower engine wear and will have better fuel economy when the oil is cold.
In regards to X-clean 5W40 being a "diesel" oil, it is somewhat true but it is important to know it has various gas engine oil approvals as well so it offers great application coverage in a single product. Porsche A40 and VW 502 are gas specific profiles that the X-clean is approved for.
Full SAPS automotive oils are generally meant for higher performance applications with strong ZDDP levels and high cleaning power. Yes, as a result of that they are not emission systems friendly compared to Mid or Low SAPS oils.
In regards to X-clean 5W40 being a "diesel" oil, it is somewhat true but it is important to know it has various gas engine oil approvals as well so it offers great application coverage in a single product. Porsche A40 and VW 502 are gas specific profiles that the X-clean is approved for.
Full SAPS automotive oils are generally meant for higher performance applications with strong ZDDP levels and high cleaning power. Yes, as a result of that they are not emission systems friendly compared to Mid or Low SAPS oils.
Oh, another question... Motul RBF600 brake fluid, is it any more prone to moisture than other oil and does it need quicker replacement? I've been using it for sometime and essentially change once a year.
Cheers!
06-19-2018, 03:54 PM
#39
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Awesome! Thanks Nick for all of the explanation, it surely helps a lot! More companies need to do this, as your websites are typically not clear enough for enthusiasts who may get confused with all of the various oil products in the market. I've been using Motul 8100 X-cess for sometime now, and it's been doing great. Curious if switching to X-max would be a good option, being a street/track car? Might try it at some point.
Oh, another question... Motul RBF600 brake fluid, is it any more prone to moisture than other oil and does it need quicker replacement? I've been using it for sometime and essentially change once a year.
Cheers!
Oh, another question... Motul RBF600 brake fluid, is it any more prone to moisture than other oil and does it need quicker replacement? I've been using it for sometime and essentially change once a year.
Cheers!
We appreciate the kind words. For sure part of our business model is grassroots and having proximity to communities like this so we're happy to support Rennlist.
If you're having good luck with X-cess I would advocate in continuing to use it as the performance levels of the X-max vs X-cess are very similar. You will have slightly improved oil pumpability at cold startup with a 0W40 though.
As for the RBF 600, the brake fluid itself is not more prone to moisture vs others but the increased temperatures at the track will have an effect on the drain interval of the braking system. With mixed driving (street and race), a once a year drain of the brake fluid is reasonable assuming your car is not seeing a lot of track time vs street driving. -Nick
06-19-2018, 10:23 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Another Motul user and fan here. I run around 245F on a track (measured through OBD2 with unknown sensor's location). Typically change my 8100 X-cess after 2-3 events just to have a cheap insurance on my 3.8 M97.1. Would going to 300 be more appropriate to keep higher viscosity and higher pressure at 245F? Data is a bit confusing. I would like to maintain higher level of ZDDP. Can you share zinc content also in 8110 and 300?
For 8100 X-cess:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 86.2 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 14.2 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.7 mPa.s
For 300V 5W-40:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 81.8 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 13.6 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 4.1 mPa.s (similar to Driven XP9)
For 8100 X-cess:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 86.2 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 14.2 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.7 mPa.s
For 300V 5W-40:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 81.8 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 13.6 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 4.1 mPa.s (similar to Driven XP9)
06-20-2018, 02:33 AM
#41
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Another Motul user and fan here. I run around 245F on a track (measured through OBD2 with unknown sensor's location). Typically change my 8100 X-cess after 2-3 events just to have a cheap insurance on my 3.8 M97.1. Would going to 300 be more appropriate to keep higher viscosity and higher pressure at 245F? Data is a bit confusing. I would like to maintain higher level of ZDDP. Can you share zinc content also in 8110 and 300?
For 8100 X-cess:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 86.2 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 14.2 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.7 mPa.s
For 300V 5W-40:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 81.8 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 13.6 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 4.1 mPa.s (similar to Driven XP9)
For 8100 X-cess:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 86.2 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 14.2 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 3.7 mPa.s
For 300V 5W-40:
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 81.8 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 13.6 mm²/s
HTHS viscosity at 150°C (302°F) ASTM D4741 4.1 mPa.s (similar to Driven XP9)
If you're changing out the oil that quickly, paying twice as much for 300V will get quite expensive at the same interval. If you're ok with that and you primarily use your car for track days/spirited street driving, then 300V will have considerable upside for the 911 especially as it relates to more HP/TQ and lower oil temps- this comes in form of a very low traction coefficient and a heavily friction modified ad pack.
The ZDDP levels will be higher in 300V but it won't be a night and day difference vs the 8100 X-cess 5W40. You'll have better lubricity and protection with 300V in the high temperature ranges vs 8100 as the ester base oils in 300V have higher durability at high operating temps. Oil pressure should remain the more or less the same with identical viscosities at operating temps. Both oils will have high HTHS viscosities >3.5 mPa so there is a sufficient oil film at critical parts of the engine where temps are more extreme.
Either way, both the 8100 X-cess and 300V are both excellent oils for track use in the 911.- Nick
Last edited by Motul; 06-20-2018 at 03:27 AM.
06-24-2018, 10:59 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
I heard that Motul 300V oil make causes issues to the cats. Is this accurate?
06-25-2018, 04:03 PM
#44
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
06-25-2018, 04:08 PM
#45
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
If you're looking for a Porsche approved oil by us, please look into the 8100 X-cess 5W40 or 8100 X-max 0W40. Both will have increased wear protection vs the OEM recommended product as well as improved oil consumption characteristics. -Nick