TwoStrikes

thats the plan!

CAA

Seems to be an overall trend in the "evolution" of the 997 forum. Soooo many posts lately around PDK vs Manual, CPO or no?, how many owners are too many, is this a good price? and on and on and on. Most likely a function of the age of the cars now and their price point in the depreciation curve.

qikqbn

To share the experience of owning a Porsche with your father will be a special treat! I just have a feeling you two better set boundaries early on or you will be fighting on who gets the keys on day one!!
If you thought the S2000 was a good "hobby car", well you are in for a real treat! Lot's of great examples on this forum of Porsche owner's making their cars unique and more to their liking.

It's interesting that the 991.1 was your first "experience" behind the wheel of a 911. You really did experience the most refined and comfortable version of the breed your first time out. With over 50 years of the "911 experience" to chose from you do have some catching up to do. As most have stated, get behind the wheel of a few examples before dropping $60k. Options on the car can really make a difference too so that can be a whole other ball of wax to research through, but don't let it cloud your judgement if you come across a really great car with the right maintenance history and condition.
I spent well over 6 months of daily searching for my car. It seriously depressed me and stressed me out when I thought it was suppose to be fun!! But dropping that kind of cash on a car the first time can make you sick to your stomach. I drove 400 miles to see the car for the first time. I will say this... the MOMENT I saw the car I purchased for the first time I knew it was for me. I could not hand over my cash fast enough! If anything makes you feel uneasy about the car... walk away. Be patient and "the one" will show up eventually. Don't be afraid to fork over an extra 3-5k if you come across "the one" with low mileage and it is in pristine condition
Best of luck on your search.

Fbrooksr

I was a Corvette guy for decades. On a lark, I decided to drive some 2002-4 Porsche models inclusive of cabriolets, coupes, etc. this past summer to see if I wanted to change to this style car. I was surprised at the huge driving experience difference. After almost doing something with one of those, I saw the 2012 Targa 4 6MT in Guards Red. Drove it. Loved it. It called me. Bought it. Love it more now. Subsequently, was intrigued by a 991.1 Targa 4S. Drove it. Found the PDK awesome. Found the car comfortable. But, it lacked something. Was roomy, sophisticated, many upgrades from the 997.2. But it lacked something. It had no personality.

Did the Porsche Experience at Summit Point, WV. this past fall. Had the opportunity to drive 991.2 Turbos and 4Ss, Panameras, and Caimans (awesome car by the way if you want to track something), and found them powerful and sophisticated. Incredibly fast! I was grateful for the "experience". Found them missing something though compared to the 997.2. I suggest you and your Dad try to find a way to do an Experience. Maybe go to Atlanta.

I find the 997 series 911s more easily modified by you. The 991 not as easily. You may need a mechanic if you mod a 991. You won't if you have a 997. If modifying the car to fit you is your goal - 997. If you want comfort, more room and techie stuff - 991. My 997.2 has been a joy to fool with. It has a personality. It is fun to drive. Would I have a 991.1 Targa. Yep. Could've. Nice car, truly. Decided the 997.2 was more fun. And, I like fooling around with the car, making it mine. You and your Dad might, too.

Good luck, and whatever you do get, you'll like the experience. These cars are awesome!

wrow

I don't own a 911...yet. But I can relate:

In 2009 my dad (65) bought a 2005 Honda S2000 that we tinkered with together (I'm 31). In 2011 I bought a 2007 Honda S2000 that I subsequently supercharged after 2 years of ownership. For his birthday two years ago, we put the car on a lift at a shop and supercharged it together, along with my brother (24). My brother just bought his S2000 off him, and he's taken mine, while I'm in the market for a 997. I drove my first 911 (997.1 C4S) when I randomly ran into one at a CarMax. I am sold on the C4S, at least until I get the opportunity to get behind a C2S. I intend to pass the car along to him when I upgrade in the future.

The DIY aspect of the 997 is what draws me to them most. Thought I could share a similar story with the community.

Para82

Same questions they were asking when these were 100 grand, 80 grand, 60 grand, 45 .....

I've personally kept the 997S for almost a decade, because it has an instant iconic status about it a real timeless 911.

For newer vehicles i've turned to purchasing other sports cars like the C7 GrandSport and probably going to add that mid engine C8 next - those are innovative and exciting. The newer Porsches for me are not (including the 991). I'm sure it's technically a better car than a 997S but just look at it.

alexl911

I find it really interesting that most 997 owners say the 991 is not a 'real' 911 anymore, while 991 GT3's are universally praised as the best 911 ever made.

Fbrooksr

I have the Targa 4 now. 62,000 miles on the clicker. Time to trade? I just can't pull the trigger. I've driven 3 991s. Two Targa 4Ss and one Carrera 4S. All 991.1s. The PDK is for real. The car is smoother riding. Roomier. But it's missing something. Personality!

I know I should get something with a warranty. I know something big is going to break on the 997.2. It's time. But, it's just too much fun to drive. It's too easy to tinker with, to modify. It has a personality. The 991 are solid cars. They're just boring. Sorry, Porsche. You've engineered the fun out.l

golfnutintib

all 911's are real 911's...they have simply evolved and grown in terms of technology and size over time, and as such, the nature of the driving experience has changed, as have the expectations of owners

what a 911 is only matters in the sense of what the car does for you...people now buy 911's for lots of reasons -- they are as much status symbols as they are machines to drive hard for sheer enjoyment... if you have historical references/experiences of older 911's, the new cars can represent a welcome change or an unwelcome one

what is un-debatable is that modern 911's are bigger, more comfortable, and more capable in terms of speed, braking, cornering... they are simply more advanced and made to be enjoyed by an broader audience - the objective of a proper capitalist enterprise in today's global economy

newer sports cars are thus easier for more drivers to drive faster with less risk... long time 911 owners who have honed their skills driving the older cars well may resent that new cars almost drive themselves and protect inexperienced drivers from mishaps even at very high speeds... but porsche appropriately doesn't want a high driver skill level as a pre-requisite for owning and enjoying a 911

newer cars are also often less involving because they are so advanced and so ultra stable at speed, that you need to be going at insane speeds to feel like the car is going fast... after all, the true thrill of speed in a sports car is the sense of connectedness/control in the face of danger as one approaches the limits of the car... but if you haven't driven a well sorted 964 or 993 or 996 near their limits, then the newer cars are certainly 100% entertaining sports cars... it's all a matter of perspective

JQ911

josserman

My993C2

I am contemplating selling my 1997 993C2 which I have owned since 2009 because next year a long awaited race track should be built not too far from where I live. Back in 2009 through 2011 when I had access to a different race track (which is now permanently closed) I did track the 993, but with the recent spike in the appreciation values of the 993s, I am not so sure I should be tracking the 993 anymore and hence the reason why I am possibly in the market looking for a replacement 911. Then if I do sell my 993, my rennlist name will become obsolete. I clearly didn't think that one thoroughly when I signed up .. LOL

Anyway, last night I went to go check out a 6 speed manual transmission 2009 997.2 3.6L Carrera 2. It is a nice car for sure. The pros being that is competitively priced vehicle for what it offers and it has the newer engine void of the concerns of the past IMS bearing issues of it's predecessors. Now the pedals were laid out different from the 993 which took some getting used to and the shifter was also in a slightly different location. In time I can adapt to these ergonomic differences of the 997. That isn't the issue. The issue is, is that the 993 is a more raw driving experience and quite frankly I just like raw experiences over the modern refined ones. The 997 had plenty of power, 60 more horses than my 993 and it did not take much effort to get me into the "pull me over officer I am speeding" territory even though I was not even remotely close to driving the car at the speeds it is capable of driving and of course it does not take my 993 to also obtain the same "pull me over officer" speeds. Plus at another time when we were on our way back to the owner's home driving through local streets where the speed limits are low, it was a more refined ride that it appeared that it would be hard to go any slower than we were going. Of course I could go slower, but it was just another difference between the two cars. Regardless there was a bit of a negative to the 997.2. It's not a huge deal, but just an unfulfilled expectation that I guess would require deeper pockets to resolve. You see the torque differences between the older 993 and the more modern 997.2 were not as pronounced as I thought it would be. How much of this the difference between the older more raw driving experience of the air cooled 993 versus the more modern 997.2 and how much of this is "there simply isn't a huge torque difference between these two cars". Plus I should mention as I drove away from the 997.2 owner's home in my 993, I was able to notice subtle differences in the slightly less performing 993. It is sort of an apples to oranges comparison. The more modern 997.2 has slightly better (but not radically better) performance, but I know the 993 inside out and know how to drive the socks off of it.

Now this 997.2 is still a good candidate because of it's price and because of other circumstances surrounding the car to turn it into a street legal track car complete with roll bars, racing seats and harness (plus all the other goodies that can be added to it). But it will only ever be a medium speed track car which is okay I guess because well ... while I may not be poor, but I am not rich and I can only track what I can afford to track.

Next up in a few days is a test drive of a 996 Turbo (which should offer the best bang for the buck) but will it live up to expectations? Only time will tell. Plus later on in the week there is another 2010 997.2 Carrera 2 car that I want to look at since it has the slightly more powerful 3.8L engine. The 3.8L 997.2 also sports the PDK transmission which I am sure will be awesome on a race track (one less thing to worry about) but it might not be quite as engaging to drive on the public roads. Then the down side to the PDK equipped car is that it is considerably more expensive than the 997.2 3.6L car I looked at last night because the PDK car is a lower mileage option.

I don't know. I guess I am just writing all of this because while the more modern cars offer performance improvements, but there is something I like about the raw driving experience of the older air cooled cars and perhaps I should say "screw it" and not worry about the appreciating values of the 993s and just track the car I know and love and just be contempt with the reality that it only ever has and only ever will be a medium speed Porsche. Dang life was easier a couple of weeks ago when I did not know this new race track was going to be built and opened in 2019.

Bxstr

I drove both a 991.1 C2S and 997's. I preferred the 997.2 for my application only. It is a weekend car that sees a couple thousand miles a year. For a daily driver go with the 991. But coming out of a S2000, I think the 997 might feel a bit more like a weekend car to you.

9974S

Blu311

OP, its been almost a month, have you purchased a 911 yet?

I agree with the 997.2 camp, especially given your budget, you should be able to get a nice one at $60k or less.

I owned an S2000 for 4 years, sold it and got into a base 997.2 for a little over a year, sold it and I am now back in an S2000 and shopping for a 997.2 to add to the S2000. There is something special about the S2000 you might miss, its gearbox and go-cart like handling are special. With that said, the 997.2 does pretty much everything better (except shifter feel imo) and does so in a more refined package. The 997.2 will feel like luxury car compared to an S2000 but should still be raw enough to satisfy your sports car cravings, especially with a modified exhaust.

Good luck in your search.