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Haven't been on the Forum over the weekend as I was down in Portland for an SCCA weekend.
For the 997 Brakes, I'll use this more of as my personal research and what I can share with the masses. I'll post up all of my info and research I do to setup the brakes to my preference. Of course this preference may not be for everyone. I'll have a vbox setup to do all my testing and will share those results. I'll start doing this test setup for myself in the next few weeks as I'm heading out of town tonight for the next two weeks and need to swap out the winter tires for summer performance tires.
The current line items/action list I plan on doing:
- Figure out what pads are currently installed on the car
- Do a baseline vbox test using current components installed on car
- Install 997 GT3/RS Front/Rear Brake Ducts
- Redo vbox test post brake duct install
- Install Stainless lines w/ a full flush using Motul 600
- Redo vbox test post flush, stainless lines, and brake ducts
- Run second baseline using Ferodo DS2500 (front and rear) + New Rotors
- Redo vbox test post flush, ss lines, brake ducts, and Ferodo lines
- If I'm happy with that setup, that's what I'm going to report and be happy with.
If that's not what I'm happy with, I'll start messing around with changing Hawk Compounds front and rear (HPS, HP+, 5.0, DTC30, DTC60, DTC70, DTC80). I'll specifically utilize Hawk Pads as they are easy to procure and the compounds have a wide range of tiers. I do not plan on pushing my own company nor products under my personal account as a company/sponsored account will be made specifically for that. So these test results are of my personal preferences and research.
Just so everyone has all the info, too.
Front FMSI: D916
Rear FMSI: D1135
Based on your comments that initial bite is lacking, your action plan doesn't make sense. Brake ducts will do nothing for initial bite, they are intended to prevent brake fade from overheating. SS brake lines will arguably do very little for initial bite. Motul 600 is great fluid but won't help initial bite unless there is air in the lines, which could be corrected by simply bleeding the brakes.
When you finally get around to changing pads and rotors you might see some improvement in initial bite. I run DS2500s in my C2S but they're a compromise street/track pad not known for great initial bite. Why would you choose Ferodo pads since you claim to be very familiar with Hawk products?
You probably need to have a chat with your R&D team.
Based on your comments that initial bite is lacking, your action plan doesn't make sense. Brake ducts will do nothing for initial bite, they are intended to prevent brake fade from overheating. SS brake lines will arguably do very little for initial bite. Motul 600 is great fluid but won't help initial bite unless there is air in the lines, which could be corrected by simply bleeding the brakes.
When you finally get around to changing pads and rotors you might see some improvement in initial bite. I run DS2500s in my C2S but they're a compromise street/track pad not known for great initial bite. Why would you choose Ferodo pads since you claim to be very familiar with Hawk products?
You probably need to have a chat with your R&D team.
Yes I agree with you 100% and it is why I asked him what he was going to be logging as well because if all you are loggimg is braking distances than the pad compounds will probably have a minimal impact as well.
Braking distances are largely dictated by tire compound unless you are having brake fade issues which is not something that the original poster has complained about at all. The only complaint seems to be initial bite
We measured a 997.2 GTS earlier this week, and we have a design in process. We're still sorting through the total application list, but it looks like we should be able to service the vast majority of 997 chassis cars, including the 997.1 GT3. We'll also pick up the 996 GT3 as a bonus.
For the 997 we plan to use our 372x34mm front disc, mated to our rear 365x30mm disc. Those discs mated to properly sized Radi-CAL calipers will be just about perfect in terms of both heat capacity and brake balance. That setup will provide all of the heat capacity and disc durability one will ever need, while remaining extremely lightweight, and they will fit inside 18” wheels. We have similar setups tearing up tracks across the country on extremely fast, heavy, platforms such as the C7 Z06. We also worked with Ford to produce a similar system fortheir Ford FP350S Mustang, and have logged many test miles on it at VIR and elsewhere. It should be a monster setup for the 997 chassis, and it will really open up wheel options by staying inside the 18” fitment envelope.
Our systems tend to be what our customers go with after they get tired of messing about with piecemeal solutions. They are the do it once, do it right solution if you are tracking your car. They are also as close as you can get to the AP Racing setup the 911 RSR is currently running in IMSA.
__________________
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs Ferodo Racing Brake Pads Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030 jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
It seems to me that you have been comparing the Carrera S to a dedicated track car braking and maybe your expectations are either off or you should consider a GT car.
You can definitely modify the Carrera for better performance, but once you get the brakes sorted out, the next thing that will irritate you will likely be the suspension, and you could soon end up on a slippery slope.
We measured a 997.2 GTS earlier this week, and we have a design in process. We're still sorting through the total application list, but it looks like we should be able to service the vast majority of 997 chassis cars, including the 997.1 GT3. We'll also pick up the 996 GT3 as a bonus.
For the 997 we plan to use our 372x34mm front disc, mated to our rear 365x30mm disc. Those discs mated to properly sized Radi-CAL calipers will be just about perfect in terms of both heat capacity and brake balance. That setup will provide all of the heat capacity and disc durability one will ever need, while remaining extremely lightweight, and they will fit inside 18” wheels. We have similar setups tearing up tracks across the country on extremely fast, heavy, platforms such as the C7 Z06. We also worked with Ford to produce a similar system fortheir Ford FP350S Mustang, and have logged many test miles on it at VIR and elsewhere. It should be a monster setup for the 997 chassis, and it will really open up wheel options by staying inside the 18” fitment envelope.
Our systems tend to be what our customers go with after they get tired of messing about with piecemeal solutions. They are the do it once, do it right solution if you are tracking your car. They are also as close as you can get to the AP Racing setup the 911 RSR is currently running in IMSA.
Taken by surprise by your description of your brakes. I suspect you may have air in your lines, or faulty or non stock pads/disks/caliper/master cylinder.
Because it's pretty much universally known and acknowledged, the brake system on your car is world class.
Originally Posted by geeky
Hi All,
Just picked up a new to my 997 Carrera S last week and I find the brakes to be very lacking.
Planning on upgrading the lines and the pads, but curious what everyone is running for their combination of pads and brake upgrades.
That may be your problem, as rotor resurfacing makes no sense on these brakes. If rotors are worn, just replace those.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Rotor resurfacing before the minimum thickness has been reached cleans the rotor up for new pads and extends the life of the rotor to its maximum. Yes I race, Yes I have done this, many times successfully on 997 and 944.
Been out of town for a bit and finally got back and started working on the car etc.
Swapped out the ATE pads that came installed on the car when I purchased it with some Ferodo DS2500's and bled the brakes and we're all set. Massive air bubble in the passenger rear caliper that as soon as I finished bleeding the brakes, I had no major complaints. Have some stainless steel lines made already so I'll swap those out anyway next weekend.
Been out of town for a bit and finally got back and started working on the car etc.
Swapped out the ATE pads that came installed on the car when I purchased it with some Ferodo DS2500's and bled the brakes and we're all set. Massive air bubble in the passenger rear caliper that as soon as I finished bleeding the brakes, I had no major complaints. Have some stainless steel lines made already so I'll swap those out anyway next weekend.
Good to know, finally, that Porsche brakes are fine and just need regular maintenance. The thread start made me concerned but it was all for naught.
Been out of town for a bit and finally got back and started working on the car etc.
Swapped out the ATE pads that came installed on the car when I purchased it with some Ferodo DS2500's and bled the brakes and we're all set. Massive air bubble in the passenger rear caliper that as soon as I finished bleeding the brakes, I had no major complaints. Have some stainless steel lines made already so I'll swap those out anyway next weekend.
Good choice switching pads and bleeding the brake lines first. ATE were the "less squeeky, quiet" pads I mentioned earlier that I had braking issues with as well. Yes, they are less squeeky, but you sacrifice a lot of braking feel, initial bite, overheating and stopping distances. Ok for daily driving and obeying all the traffic laws, but scared the hell out of me on my first aggressive canyon run actually. No way I would ever use them for track use either. Well, glad to hear you solved most of your problems with braking, Braking is a big part of what Porsches are great at!
04-19-2018, 07:04 PM
