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The main reasoning behind this is the fact that the Carrera S brakes are off the shelf Brembo brakes that are private labeled for Porsche use. This means that the brakes are produced in mass and the penny pinchers at the operations level of Porsche will choose the most cost effective brake off the shelf for mass production and create other components to work within a tolerance level. Perfect example of this is the 996 turbo coolant pipe fittings being glued in or the 996 IMSB failures for poor component purchasing, etc. It's still a business and they have a bottom line.
I want to make that tolerance level even tighter, and just to clarify, my career is in management of a big brake kit manufacturing/r&d facility so I have a whole team of brake engineers and manufacturing capabilities to make the ideal brake setup for these cars. Just wanted to see what everyone on the forum was using for their setup. This is also why I am able to utilize multiple compounds to really dial in the brakes for this car before switching the entire braking system as a whole for new calipers and rotor setups etc. and no, I don't work at Brembo but I do directly compete against them.
Pedal modulation/feel and brake balance is off and not what I would prefer to have setup on this vehicle. The initial bite of the current pads installed (not sure of what is installed by previous owner) is very lacking to say the least.
I've been daily driving a track prepped vehicle with a full brake setup and adjustable bias/master cylinders which is why Im very particular about my brakes.
At this very moment, I will most likely start playing with different compounds to mess with the brake balance of where I want the vehicle to be. I will initially try a Ferodo DS2500 all around as a base point and start messing with compounds from there. The lines I will swap out either way as I can swap out at low costs for a full braided stainless setup to atleast see if it affects my pedal feel.
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. You are going the right route for this IMO. Start with pad compound. Once you find the bite feel you are looking for then move to brake bias. Easiest way to solve this is by swapping compounds Front and Rear. Then look to stopping distances. Solve for that with rotor face type and eat a lighter breakfast.
This ALL assumes OEM hardware (besides pads and rotors). Lots to play with. Have fun with it and fir what it's worth i thought the Textar pads were junk too. And you're wasting money on changing the lines. Your money though.
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. You are going the right route for this IMO. Start with pad compound. Once you find the bite feel you are looking for then move to brake bias. Easiest way to solve this is by swapping compounds Front and Rear. Then look to stopping distances. Solve for that with rotor face type and eat a lighter breakfast.
This ALL assumes OEM hardware (besides pads and rotors). Lots to play with. Have fun with it and fir what it's worth i thought the Textar pads were junk too. And you're wasting money on changing the lines. Your money though.
The main reasoning behind this is the fact that the Carrera S brakes are off the shelf Brembo brakes that are private labeled for Porsche use. This means that the brakes are produced in mass and the penny pinchers at the operations level of Porsche will choose the most cost effective brake off the shelf for mass production and create other components to work within a tolerance level. Perfect example of this is the 996 turbo coolant pipe fittings being glued in or the 996 IMSB failures for poor component purchasing, etc. It's still a business and they have a bottom line.
I want to make that tolerance level even tighter, and just to clarify, my career is in management of a big brake kit manufacturing/r&d facility so I have a whole team of brake engineers and manufacturing capabilities to make the ideal brake setup for these cars. Just wanted to see what everyone on the forum was using for their setup. This is also why I am able to utilize multiple compounds to really dial in the brakes for this car before switching the entire braking system as a whole for new calipers and rotor setups etc. and no, I don't work at Brembo but I do directly compete against them.
I understand that. But... the brakes in your car (if in proper condition) are more than appropriate for the job without fading. Can you do better? Yes, but why? Are you also going to improve the tire rubber compound and the surfaces you drive on to match superior brakes? And then restrict your car's driving to very specific conditions. It's all a matter of balance.
And... your second paragraph above - "my career is in management of a big brake kit manufacturing/r&d facility so I have a whole team of brake engineers and manufacturing capabilities to make the ideal brake setup for these cars." just removes the veil in your approach to market another mod to this community. Well played.
I understand that. But... the brakes in your car (if in proper condition) are more than appropriate for the job without fading. Can you do better? Yes, but why? Are you also going to improve the tire rubber compound and the surfaces you drive on to match superior brakes? It's all a matter of balance.
As I had stated, the brakes were serviced just last month by a premier Porsche shop (endorsed by the PCA) locally to me by the previous owner. They did full pads, rotor resurfacing, and a fluid flush and the brakes are still lacking for me. So in this situation, yes, it is worth investing time and money into optimizing the brake system for my needs. I will mess with compounds and change out the lines as its within my ability to do.
I am not asking any of you for your opinions on if I should pursue doing this or if it's worth the investment to do this. I am asking people for their opinions on what compounds and braking upgrades have been done for your brakes if you have done any.
Coming from a moto racing background, my current Ducati Panigale is on Brembo Monoblock calipers, Brembo 19 RCS MC and Brembo LCF 600 Plus fluid. When I got my 997.1, the brake pedal feedback was not that great since the fluid hasn't been flushed in years so there was 4% moisture found during the PPI.
I bled the lines with Brembo LCF fluid and it's better but not solid. I'm going to California Speedway May 5th with Speed Ventures so I'll find out how the stock brakes do. IMO, I like Brembo. They gave the confidence to brake later when doing 170mph at Miller's long straight-a-way and 150mph at Willow Springs. We don't have a HANS device, roll cage or other auto safety equipment on a moto so we learn to trust your setup, esp the brakes.
As I had stated, the brakes were serviced just last month by a premier Porsche shop (endorsed by the PCA) locally to me by the previous owner. They did full pads, rotor resurfacing, and a fluid flush and the brakes are still lacking for me....
That may be your problem, as rotor resurfacing makes no sense on these brakes. If rotors are worn, just replace those.
I’m also interested to hear about better initial bite. I’m satisfied with the overall braking performance but I would like to have more immediacy on the response when I apply the brakes. Can this be done without compromising in any way street usability? I couldn’t live with any type of noise or screeching coming from the pads.
I’m also interested to hear about better initial bite. I’m satisfied with the overall braking performance but I would like to have more immediacy on the response when I apply the brakes. Can this be done without compromising in any way street usability? I couldn’t live with any type of noise or screeching coming from the pads.
I’m also interested to hear about better initial bite. I’m satisfied with the overall braking performance but I would like to have more immediacy on the response when I apply the brakes. Can this be done without compromising in any way street usability? I couldn’t live with any type of noise or screeching coming from the pads.
pads with high initial bite will generally dust more. Thats the compromise. They can be more noisy but careful selection of an aggressive street compound can avoid this. Pads with high bite are those like a st sport pad and ds2500 which both use similar compounds. They dust alot and the dust they produce is generally more corrosive than oem but they are quiet. Pads that will put you through the windshield ike dtc70 and xp10 will chew up rotors, dust incredibly and squeal like mad bc they are designed for high heat track use.
It may also be helpful for the original poster to check which exact pads were put on his car. I would question any shop that decided to try and resurface the brake rotors since this is not what Porsche recommends. I would just wonder which brake pads they used as well.
Car was just serviced with new pads and fluid a month ago with proof of maintenance from a local high esteemed PCA shop by the previous owner.
Ain't that the truth. I call it as I see it. The current brake setup is very lacking for performance even for daily use. So I guess I'll pioneer forward with this fine tuning and post my results incase anyone else is in my shoes later in the future.
Eleven year member of this forum and I've read a lot of complaints about these cars but I can't recall ever reading a complaint about the Carrerra S brakes. And definitely not one declaring them inadequate for daily street driving. But, to each their own.
I’m also interested to hear about better initial bite. I’m satisfied with the overall braking performance but I would like to have more immediacy on the response when I apply the brakes. Can this be done without compromising in any way street usability? I couldn’t live with any type of noise or screeching coming from the pads.
This is essentially what carbon ceramic brake systems do. Massive initial bite, low dust, and if your lucky, a fairly quiet system. But at a price! 🤑
I saw your comments on track prep. If you decide to go that route with your 997, we have a fantastic brake package that may bolt right onto your car. We literally have a 997 arriving to today for a test fit. We believe the 997 brakes to be the same as the 987 Cayman. In that case, we have front and rear options for your car. There have been numerous posts about our kits on this forum. Our 991 GT3 and 981 GT4 kits start shipping next week, and we're just now really catching our stride in the Porsche market. Pretty soon you'll see a lot more Porsche customer feedback on these incredible systems that we are putting together. Porsche owners unfortunately just don't know that they haven't had the opportunity to get the good stuff yet! Our systems are as close as one can get to the AP Racing Radi-CAL system on the 911 RSR in IMSA:
Also, if you try the DS2500 and aren't crazy about them, the DS1.11 could be a potential option depending on wants/needs. We can help you sort that out though. Feel free to PM me at any time!
04-12-2018, 04:53 PM
