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My first BMW, 2011 335is that has been my DD for over 7 years now. Outside of a couple minor recalls, the car hasn't had a single issue and is sitting at 64,000 miles. I'll drive it till it dies. We bought a used X5 several years ago but sold it after 2-1/2 years of use and bought a Macan S. The X5 was just boring.
I noticed that many of the 997 drivers have had a BMW on their curriculum (often in an M(otorsport) version) and I wondered what explains this affinity with the cars from Bayern?
Is it because both are typically RWD, German, high(er)-performance cars?
Because they have a sporty image?
Because of the heritage (but then Mercedes Benz would need to be right up there)?
Feel free to enlighten me
(ps. I have never been very loyal to a specific car brand, but the last one before the Porsche happened to be a BMW as well... a 6-series E63. Thought it was pure coincidence... until npw )
Many BMW's are great drivers cars with RWD, excellent steering feel and suspension that sticks better than it's compliance would suggest.
After driving my first one, an 89 M3, I bought it from my friend back in 94, daily drove until 1999 when I upgraded to a 92 C2. Kept the e30 and gave to my wife for DD duties.
Since then, I've always had a BMW for regular duties; they are just simply comfortable, handle great, practical and fun for regular use.
Great manual gearboxes, stock LSDs, simple controls in earlier models and good seats don't hurt.
In my circles, the progression seems to be VW/Audi>>BMW>>Porsche. I've owned a 02tii, 2 SpecE30s, 2 E36M3 (raced one), and an E28. I"ll never own a BMW built after 2005. When I get my next dedicated track car, I'm going back to BMW. More durable and cheaper to buy and run than Porsche.
[QUOTE=Zoefhaus;14850823]I noticed that many of the 997 drivers have had a BMW on their curriculum (often in an M(otorsport) version) and I wondered what explains this affinity with the cars from Bayern?
Is it because both are typically RWD, German, high(er)-performance cars?
Because they have a sporty image?
Because of the heritage (but then Mercedes Benz would need to be right up there)?
I may be a statistical aberration. I have driven and owned Porsches since I was 19 years old. I have also never driven a BMW. Why bother? They used to be known more as family sedans.
I may be a statistical aberration. I have driven and owned Porsches since I was 19 years old. I have also never driven a BMW. Why bother? They used to be known more as family sedans.
One bothers because M cars and back seat. So many truly great driving vehicles, and I've been fortunate enough to have personal relations with more than a few. What a wonderful world.
Over the years moved around German made cars from VW, BMW, and Porsche. First cars were a beetle and 1977 Rabbit GTI (GTI was a great driver’s car in its day in a small package). Tracked a 1976 911S with a friend as a hobby car in the mid 80’s. Wish I kept that car, who knew they would be paying the kind of money for them today. Also purchased a used 1977 BMW 320i in the early 80's for a couple of years.
In late 80's went off the grid until 2004 married and raising children. Owned a new 1987 4 door Acura Legend, and added a 1996 Mercury Mountaineer SUV. Lured back to performance sports car and felt BMW finally started to focus on quality M design and performance in the early 2000’s. I purchased a 2004 M3 new. In the first year installed Dinan’s S3 package.
The upgrade performance package Included a race radiator, Dinan’s free flow exhaust, upgraded throttle bodies, 3.91 rear differential, Koni shocks, Dinan spring and sway bar suspension tune, supercharger upgrade, and Dinan's tune to address all the engine mods.
Had it dyno’d and matched Dinan published increased HP/Torque. Tracked it 2 times a year and was a solid DD and occasional track day car for over 10 years. Placed 85,000 miles on it before switching to my current 2011 997.2 C2S.
For some reason, felt the 997.2 was similar to my 2004 E46 M3. Newer M3’s were better performers, but lost that e46 driver engagement feel. More GT like (sound familiar). My 997.2 was late in its production years, but had combined great design lines, and performance. Also had a great price point in 2015. I started searching in the used car marketplace.
I found 997.2’s had a similar balance and driver feel as my modified e46 M3. Did not feel the same about newer 991-911 models, and new M3 platforms. Owning both, also found an E46 and 997 had a fundamental main difference between them. They have different base starting points. An E46 was a factory modified 3 series platform, modding an M3 was not inexpensive, but could accomplish more with mods to address better handling and performance.
The 997.2 is based on a factory platform that is designed for the rigidity and performance of it's highest versions, like the GT3. Different parts and engine builds will tweak performance as you move up the product line.
Porsche modding is expensive, and if you really wanted to increase performance noticeably, advise was to move up the 997.2 line and purchase a GT3. Though during the middle of 2015 the price points between the C2S and a GT3 in the used car market was basically all about supply and demand. Around 60K vs 100K at the time.
I use my car all year round and found a 997.2 C2S as the right performance balance and price point. Would of liked a GTS, but was hard to find during 2015. I came across a nicely optioned 2011 C2S. Also liked speed yellow as a color and pulled the trigger after a very good PPI report. My car stickered with all options at around $110K and was able to buy with low mileage at a little over half the sticker price at the time.
I purchased it as a 4-5 year old 997.2 out of state, with 12,000 miles in Dallas, Texas. I did do some mods to address my taste and what I was use to in my e46 M3. Installed PSE, removed the center muffler and replaced with sharkwerks xpipe, and added an IPD plenum. Installed a EVOMSit software tune to pull together these mods.
Also installed RSS rear links, H&R swaybars, and Techart springs. I feel it’s now dialed in for my taste. The stock exhaust note was to quiet compared to my modded Dinan M3. PSE and xpipe fixed that for me. Suspension mods also took it up a notch and also added the DSC module by TPC. The module and suspension parts greatly improved my suspension feel. It is now much better than my E46 M3 mods.
All in all in 2015, a 911 at a very good price point compared to newer versions of M3’s and 911’s. The 997.2 mods I mentioned above match the driving experience of my e46 M3, with a step up in performance, and in the quality of the ride and road grip. I feel my C2S Is now dialed in nicely for my taste and not much left to modify as a DD and as a day, to 2 days a year HPDE car. Best alternative if I would like better performance is to move up to a GT3.
I now need to spend more time on how to really drive her during my occasional track days. I can safely say don’t know and understand her limits. I had a better understanding of the e46 M3 platform, and need to work with quality performance driving instructors to teach me how to enjoy the C2S to its limits.
Attached are M3 pictures and my C2S after the BMW days:
.
Last edited by 2011-sy-carreras; 03-12-2018 at 08:35 AM.
Over the years moved around German made cars from VW, BMW, and Porsche. First cars were a beetle and 1977 Rabbit GTI (GTI was a great driver’s car in its day in a small package). Tracked a 1976 911S with a friend as a hobby car in the mid 80’s. Wish I kept that car, who knew they would be paying the kind of money for them today. Also purchased a used 1977 BMW 320i in the early 80's for a couple of years.
In late 80's went off the grid until 2004 married and raising children. Owned a new 1987 4 door Acura Legend, and added a 1996 Mercury Mountaineer SUV. Lured back to performance sports car and felt BMW finally started to focus on quality M design and performance in the early 2000’s. I purchased a 2004 M3 new. In the first year installed Dinan’s S3 package.
The upgrade performance package Included a race radiator, Dinan’s free flow exhaust, upgraded throttle bodies, 3.91 rear differential, Koni shocks, Dinan spring and sway bar suspension tune, supercharger upgrade, and Dinan's tune to address all the engine mods.
Had it dyno’d and matched Dinan published increased HP/Torque. Tracked it 2 times a year and was a solid DD and occasional track day car for over 10 years. Placed 85,000 miles on it before switching to my current 2011 997.2 C2S.
For some reason, felt the 997.2 was similar to my 2004 E46 M3. Newer M3’s were better performers, but lost that e46 driver engagement feel. More GT like (sound familiar). My 997.2 was late in its production years, but had combined great design lines, and performance. Also had a great price point in 2015. I started searching in the used car marketplace.
I found 997.2’s had a similar balance and driver feel as my modified e46 M3. Did not feel the same about newer 991-911 models, and new M3 platforms. Owning both, also found an E46 and 997 had a fundamental main difference between them. They have different base starting points. An E46 was a factory modified 3 series platform, modding an M3 was not inexpensive, but could accomplish more with mods to address better handling and performance.
The 997.2 is based on a factory platform that is designed for the rigidity and performance of it's highest versions, like the GT3. Different parts and engine builds will tweak performance as you move up the product line.
Porsche modding is expensive, and if you really wanted to increase performance noticeably, advise was to move up the 997.2 line and purchase a GT3. Though during the middle of 2015 the price points between the C2S and a GT3 in the used car market was basically all about supply and demand. Around 60K vs 100K at the time.
I use my car all year round and found a 997.2 C2S as the right performance balance and price point. Would of liked a GTS, but was hard to find during 2015. I came across a nicely optioned 2011 C2S. Also liked speed yellow as a color and pulled the trigger after a very good PPI report. My car stickered with all options at around $110K and was able to buy with low mileage at a little over half the sticker price at the time.
I purchased it as a 4-5 year old 997.2 out of state, with 12,000 miles in Dallas, Texas. I did do some mods to address my taste and what I was use to in my e46 M3. Installed PSE, removed the center muffler and replaced with sharkwerks xpipe, and added an IPD plenum. Installed a EVOMSit software tune to pull together these mods.
Also installed RSS rear links, H&R swaybars, and Techart springs. I feel it’s now dialed in for my taste. The stock exhaust note was to quiet compared to my modded Dinan M3. PSE and xpipe fixed that for me. Suspension mods also took it up a notch and also added the DSC module by TPC. The module and suspension parts greatly improved my suspension feel. It is now much better than my E46 M3 mods.
All in all in 2015, a 911 at a very good price point compared to newer versions of M3’s and 911’s. The 997.2 mods I mentioned above match the driving experience of my e46 M3, with a step up in performance, and in the quality of the ride and road grip. I feel my C2S Is now dialed in nicely for my taste and not much left to modify as a DD and as a day, to 2 days a year HPDE car. Best alternative if I would like better performance is to move up to a GT3.
I now need to spend more time on how to really drive her during my occasional track days. I can safely say don’t know and understand her limits. I had a better understanding of the e46 M3 platform, and need to work with quality performance driving instructors to teach me how to enjoy the C2S to its limits.
Attached are M3 pictures and my C2S after the BMW days:
.
That Porsche looks great!
The M is not bad either, but way less evocative imo.
Having owned two E46 M3's and three 997's I would hazard a guess that the M3 dudes that say that say it because for whatever reason they can't pull off the upgrade. I agree with you 100% that the driving experience between the two are so different that their argument makes no sense.
Yep, being able to step up and going from BMW to Porsche is a fun and thrilling upgrade when used to Bimmers and going to 911s.
The opposite, however, is not true. Being accustom to and going from Porsche and other high end vehicles to a BMW M series is a disappointing let down. I really don't like my M3 Competition Package and honestly never am the least bit tempted to or excited about driving it. Wish someone buy this dang thing so I can pick up another 997.2 in its place.
Yep, being able to step up and going from BMW to Porsche is a fun and thrilling upgrade when used to Bimmers and going to 911s.
The opposite, however, is not true. Being accustom to and going from Porsche and other high end vehicles to a BMW M series is a disappointing let down. I really don't like my M3 Competition Package and honestly never am the least bit tempted to or excited about driving it. Wish someone buy this dang thing so I can pick up another 997.2 in its place.
Oh well ok then, for 10k I will take it off your hands
Oh well ok then, for 10k I will take it off your hands
Lol, if that is the best I can get for this 2017 M3 Competition Package, manual with full leather and loaded with almost all options except for dual clutch transmission. Have been trying to sell this thing since November at a very reasonable price.
I skipped the BMW phase as I already had a Jetta (MkV) which, in my eyes, was finished nicer. When I started shopping for my 996 I sat in a few bimmers... X6, 3,5 and 7 series stuff. Wasn't at all impressed with the design or quality of the car (inside or out). Never actually drove one. When I was shopping for my 997 I was attracted to the M2, minus the poor interior, and drove an M4, but the premium they demanded over their competition (Ford Fusion as far as I'm concerned) wasn't worth it. Hence, back to Porsche.
Had two seven series. Loved them for a sedan.
Beautiful car.
Hated the plastic under the hood.
And a $2000 liquid cooled alternator SUCKED.
Much prefer p-cars.
Several Motorsport BMW's and finally made jump to Porsche. BMW started to bore me with heavier cars every generation, still make the best sedan. Thats why my current lineup is perfect for me 997.2 TT and 550 with Dinan tune.
03-10-2018, 09:00 AM
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