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Are these replica Fuchs unsafe?

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Old 01-13-2018, 07:34 PM
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bigbooster
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Default Are these replica Fuchs unsafe?

First of all, I'm new here so I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong forum-wise, but I digress... I'm a sucker for classic Fuchs and have a set on my 914 restoration, I was never a fan of the lobster claws that came on my 997.1 C4S cabrio so I started looking for new wheels. And before you ask, yes I searched for the safety of replica Fuchs. There's no information however about the much larger wheels designed for the new generation, only the classic sizes and styles. On my hunt, I came across these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-4-19-19X8-5-19X11-Wheels-Fit-Porsche-Carrera-911-991-993-996-997-C2-C4-Rim/292254576977?hash=item440bbaf151:g:gV8AAOSwvTBZuwgi&vxp=mtr

This seems to be the textbook definition of too good to be true. I've heard too many horror stories of cheap replica wheels shattering like glass at the first pothole they encounter and totaling the car so I wouldn't put any money down without consulting you guys here first. I love the way these look on the 997 and i'm not concerned about the wheels not being a genuine Fuchs product (I've already spent enough on genuine Fuchs for one lifetime). The previous owner spent a total of $1500!!! dollars on brand new tires all around so i would need something in the stock size of 19x11 and 19x8.5 so my options are slim. I know that these are one piece and will probably weigh more than my stock lobsters, but as long as they're structurally sound i'd be happy. Any advice?

Last edited by bigbooster; 01-13-2018 at 07:41 PM. Reason: added specifics
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:06 PM
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F308gt4
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I don’t know about those wheels, but I bought a set of the Starke wheels from Tirerack that look the same. A set of 4 is about $1000

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...9&autoModClar=

I’ve had mine since May, and have no issues. They are fine for daily driving, and limited track use. I don’t think they weigh that much more than the stock wheels, IIRC.



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Old 01-13-2018, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by F308gt4 View Post
I donít know about those wheels, but I bought a set of the Starke wheels from Tirerack that look the same. A set of 4 is about $1000

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...9&autoModClar=

Iíve had mine since May, and have no issues. They are fine for daily driving, and limited track use. I donít think they weigh that much more than the stock wheels, IIRC.

Wow, I can't believe these slipped under my radar! Thanks for the tip - If nobody speaks up to attest to the "quality" of the eBay Fuchs i'll definitely end up with the starkes.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:20 PM
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Yeah, id buy the tirerack ones. At least if you have a catastrophic failure you have a standup company like Tirerack standing behind it. They dont want any bad press. Theyre pretty easy to work with in my experience.

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Old 01-13-2018, 09:34 PM
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If you get the Starke wheels, you can fit Porsche Center caps on them. I originally used the ones that came with the car and painted them black with plastidip, but eventually bought a black set on eBay for cheap.


Also, do a search on this forum for Starke wheels. They have several styles of wheels, and have generally been well reviewed.

I found one of threads that discuss the Starke wheels. I have a pic of mine in post #46:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-wheels-2.html

Also, see this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...rke-fuchs.html


I am quite happy with them, and the price was great.


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Old 01-13-2018, 09:54 PM
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you get what you pay for. If you ever bought any cheapo wheels you assume they are cast, definitely not quality of a stock wheel. Probably not straight , may or may not be hub centric, may or may not balance, may or may not be able to mount tires on them. And are not going to be guaranteed for anything.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:02 PM
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Doug H
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Originally Posted by okbarnett View Post
you get what you pay for. If you ever bought any cheapo wheels you assume they are cast, definitely not quality of a stock wheel. Probably not straight , may or may not be hub centric, may or may not balance, may or may not be able to mount tires on them. And are not going to be guaranteed for anything.
My thoughts as well. I would not put $750 wheels on a sports car that will be driven hard.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by okbarnett View Post
you get what you pay for. If you ever bought any cheapo wheels you assume they are cast, definitely not quality of a stock wheel. Probably not straight , may or may not be hub centric, may or may not balance, may or may not be able to mount tires on them. And are not going to be guaranteed for anything.
The Tirerack (Starke) wheels are hubcentric, came balanced (I ordered them with tires and TPMS mounted). Tirerack does have a warranty on them.

I donít know about the eBay wheels. However, there are many of these Fuch style wheels (tire rack, wheel dynamics, avant- grade, etc), and it wouldnt surprise me if they were all made in the same factory in China.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:25 PM
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Often times you do not get what you pay for. Of $7,000 Porsche forged wheels on my car and guess what... they weigh about the same as any flow forged or even cast wheel out there.

Nowadays there are forged wheel manufacturers that are popping up overnight literally and they seem to have no long-term reputation and many of them I do not even see meeting any type of quality standards as far as certifications are concerned. Remember when HRE were the wheels to have and it's not uncommon to see track related failures of those Wheels.

I'd do exactly what you are doing which is reaching out to people who have the wheels and seeing what their first-hand experiences are and also reach out to the manufacturer and see if they meet any certifications.



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Old 01-14-2018, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bhvrdr View Post
Often times you do not get what you pay for. Of $7,000 Porsche forged wheels on my car and guess what... they weigh about the same as any flow forged or even cast wheel out there.

Nowadays there are forged wheel manufacturers that are popping up overnight literally and they seem to have no long-term reputation and many of them I do not even see meeting any type of quality standards as far as certifications are concerned. Remember when HRE were the wheels to have and it's not uncommon to see track related failures of those Wheels.

I'd do exactly what you are doing which is reaching out to people who have the wheels and seeing what their first-hand experiences are and also reach out to the manufacturer and see if they meet any certifications.



mike
Forgeline makes the best wheels out there imo. (no affiliation). I've spent small fortunes on forged wheels from all the big names and the light weight, finish and overall quality of my current Forgelines beat everything I've tried before. To the OP, they make what looks like a Fuchs replica: http://www.forgeline.com/products/cr3-18-19-20.html

They're not going to be cheap but do you really want to put $195 wheels from Ebay on a 997?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sandwedge View Post
Forgeline makes the best wheels out there imo. (no affiliation). I've spent small fortunes on forged wheels from all the big names and the light weight, finish and overall quality of my current Forgelines beat everything I've tried before. To the OP, they make what looks like a Fuchs replica: http://www.forgeline.com/products/cr3-18-19-20.html

They're not going to be cheap but do you really want to put $195 wheels from Ebay on a 997?
+1 on Forgelines. If you can't afford a new set, with patience, you can usually find a really nice new set in the $3,500 range and if you ever sell car, could probably get close to that for them again, if in the same condition.

I also agree with the other poster about these pop-up forged wheel companies. Just do a search for Race Tech Forged wheel failure as a perfect example. On a car capable of generating wheel forces of the 997, you don't want a cheap wheel. Ideally you want a forged wheel from a US made forging, not overseas. If you can't go that route then a rotary forged (which is really low pressure cast and not really forged) from a reputable company like HRE's FF line. Low pressure cast is as low a grade as you should consider, as regular cast wheels can have too many voids in the metal structure and crack. If you do decide to go this route, certainly go the Tire Rack way.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bhvrdr View Post
Yeah, id buy the tirerack ones. At least if you have a catastrophic failure you have a standup company like Tirerack standing behind it. They dont want any bad press. Theyre pretty easy to work with in my experience.

mike
Tirerack is just a distributor. They would not stand behind any failed product. You would have to look at the manufacturer for that. In this case, that would be Starke.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:33 PM
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Thanks for all the replies everyone, I think Starkes are going to be the best option for me. Although I would love to have forged wheels, I can't stomach spending more on wheels than i spent on my entire 914 project for a set of wheels on a daily driven car so my budget is essentially what I can get for selling the lobsters. The Starkes are low pressure cast and are relatively well reviewed so I'd definitely trust them on my car. The ebay wheels are too sketchy and i'm glad you recommended a reputable alternative. So unless someone wants to trade a set of aftermarket 19s for my lobsters, I'll place my order for the SC19 this week.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:24 PM
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Just a rule of thumb, most common wheels by quality, you go from cast, to flow forged, to forged. And cost is corresponding from bottom to top. Usually quality is corresponding also.

https://konigwheels.com/wheel-info-t...wheel-casting/

https://konigwheels.com/wheels/flow-formed-wheels/

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Wheel-Rim-Gu...7740635/g.html
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbooster View Post
First of all, I'm new here so I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong forum-wise, but I digress... I'm a sucker for classic Fuchs and have a set on my 914 restoration, I was never a fan of the lobster claws that came on my 997.1 C4S cabrio so I started looking for new wheels. And before you ask, yes I searched for the safety of replica Fuchs. There's no information however about the much larger wheels designed for the new generation, only the classic sizes and styles. On my hunt, I came across these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-4-19-19...BZuwgi&vxp=mtr

This seems to be the textbook definition of too good to be true. I've heard too many horror stories of cheap replica wheels shattering like glass at the first pothole they encounter and totaling the car so I wouldn't put any money down without consulting you guys here first. I love the way these look on the 997 and i'm not concerned about the wheels not being a genuine Fuchs product (I've already spent enough on genuine Fuchs for one lifetime). The previous owner spent a total of $1500!!! dollars on brand new tires all around so i would need something in the stock size of 19x11 and 19x8.5 so my options are slim. I know that these are one piece and will probably weigh more than my stock lobsters, but as long as they're structurally sound i'd be happy. Any advice?
\

As with all things, you get what you pay for.

Forged wheels--the authentic Otto Fuchs wheels (which happen to be made for the 997 cars now, too) are more expensive to produce--by a long short. They are forged which makes them able to shed a lot of the necessary thickness typical castings require just to keep from breaking. Forged wheels have a tendency to BEND instead of break, and pressure castings are somewhere in the middle. Castings break much more easily. What is the most common negative factor is the growth in weight to accomplish the same thing that Otto Fuchs does with his forgings. The investment in forging equipment is many times higher than castings. As soon as Porsche introduces a new wheel design any guy in China can borrow one and put it inside a sand mold and collect enough aluminum to cast a wheel. Without good pressure castings, cast wheels feature a lot of porosity, which makes a couple of things happen--(1) the wheel has trouble holding air, and (2) the wheel cannot be finished like a true forged wheel can--high polish, or an anodized aluminum look for which Fuchs are famous.

I have shaved easily 5 pounds off each rear side with authentic Otto Fuchs wheels for the 997. Porsche has been steadily getting away from weight savings and moved more to styling, and providing a variety of wheel designs for their customers. They noted that many aftermarket wheel dealers were never asked about weight savings--more interest was for the 'look' than weight. Of could, there are customers that recognize the added benefit of weight savings and seek out the lightest wheels that are available. Those, coupled with PCCBs, producce the lightest un-sprung weight capability of these more modern Porsches. But all of that comes at a price, to improve handling.

Ask for T‹V or DOT safety certification on wheels of which you are suspect.

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