Spoon ‘Rigid Collar’ subframe inserts
01-09-2018, 12:47 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Spoon ‘Rigid Collar’ subframe inserts
Just read an article on Speedhunters where an old Nhttp://www.speedhunters.com/2018/01/...-honda-heaven/SX was fitted with a new-ish product developed by Spoon (the Honda tuner) called Rigid Collar. They have many other applications as well. I think I want to try it out. Links:
https://www.rigidcollar.eu/rigid-col...gt2-996-109415
http://www.speedhunters.com/2018/01/...-honda-heaven/
https://www.rigidcollar.eu/rigid-col...gt2-996-109415
http://www.speedhunters.com/2018/01/...-honda-heaven/
01-09-2018, 01:55 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Very cool. If anything needs it it's these f*&%ing OEM sway bars. The adjustable holes are WAY bigger than the bolt fed through them. So if you have solid drop links and the bolt and nut aren't locked down tight you'll get a 'clang' over slow bumps. And they work loose on aggressive track days. So you're doing it much too often if you track the car.
Also the front LCA inboard flange is known to wear because of excess bolt play.
My only thought is this.... These are meant to reduce flex in your suspension due to loose tolerances in mounting hole machining, but I only really see the incremental benefit if you have a solid suspension. Because the rubber mounts will flex much sooner than any small tolerance gap in a suspension mounting bolt. At least I would think.
Still dig the clever thought behind this and hope to hear more chime in.
Also the front LCA inboard flange is known to wear because of excess bolt play.
My only thought is this.... These are meant to reduce flex in your suspension due to loose tolerances in mounting hole machining, but I only really see the incremental benefit if you have a solid suspension. Because the rubber mounts will flex much sooner than any small tolerance gap in a suspension mounting bolt. At least I would think.
Still dig the clever thought behind this and hope to hear more chime in.
01-09-2018, 03:14 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I think the collars are only for subframe bushes, not any other suspension pieces like the sways or the control arms. I think they’d be great for subframe bushes, but I’d hesitate for all the other components.
01-09-2018, 04:19 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Very cool. If anything needs it it's these f*&%ing OEM sway bars. The adjustable holes are WAY bigger than the bolt fed through them. So if you have solid drop links and the bolt and nut aren't locked down tight you'll get a 'clang' over slow bumps. And they work loose on aggressive track days. So you're doing it much too often if you track the car.
Their website sucks and needs updating, but quiet a few Porsche track veterans swear by them.
01-09-2018, 05:16 PM
#7
Is this more for mass produced cars or can any car benefit from these? their video is pretty dramatic, just curious if anyone has experience with this type of kit?
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01-09-2018, 06:00 PM
#8
The problem that these purport to solve are different than the problem that they actually solve.
A *properly designed* joint held with a threaded fastener isn't held by the fastener, it's held by the friction between the two parts that are clamped together by the fastener. That joint is made stronger by tightening the fastener to increase the friction between the two parts (along with other effects I won't go into e.g. grip strength). If the fastener cannot be tightened enough to prevent the two parts moving relative to each other, that is an improperly designed joint.
For suspension, alignment of the subframe relative to the chassis is not a critical tolerance because the alignment is done with adjustable fittings elsewhere in the system. Its importance is to not move once tightened.
In the case of the NSX, it may very well be an issue that the subframe shifts too much under cornering forces and that tightening the bolt more may deform the subframe or strip the threads, in which case these would serve a purpose. But, they are a bandaid, and buying them because of the marketing may be solving a problem that doesn't exist on any particular car.
A *properly designed* joint held with a threaded fastener isn't held by the fastener, it's held by the friction between the two parts that are clamped together by the fastener. That joint is made stronger by tightening the fastener to increase the friction between the two parts (along with other effects I won't go into e.g. grip strength). If the fastener cannot be tightened enough to prevent the two parts moving relative to each other, that is an improperly designed joint.
For suspension, alignment of the subframe relative to the chassis is not a critical tolerance because the alignment is done with adjustable fittings elsewhere in the system. Its importance is to not move once tightened.
In the case of the NSX, it may very well be an issue that the subframe shifts too much under cornering forces and that tightening the bolt more may deform the subframe or strip the threads, in which case these would serve a purpose. But, they are a bandaid, and buying them because of the marketing may be solving a problem that doesn't exist on any particular car.