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Its a mass produced car. Well, highly unlikely. 30,000 or so.
997s, though great Porsches, are mass produced and by definition, not highly collectible. Except for the specialty items, i.e. GT3, RS, etc, it is highly doubtful that a 997 will be nearly as collectible as, say, a run-of-the-mill 993, which was made in not only much smaller numbers, but has the benefit of being over 20 years old and a proven classic as it was somewhat handbuilt back when Porsche was an independent entity and not just another arm of VW Inc.
Buy any 997 to enjoy driving, not future collectibility
Last edited by goofballdeluxe; 01-02-2018 at 09:27 PM.
Given my recent experience trying to sell my manual trans C4S, I'd say they are not holding their value (anymore than you'd expect from a typical car). Mine has lost 23% of it's value in the 2.5 years I've owned it based on the best offer I received, and that's after increasing the accumulated mileage by only 7% during my ownership.
Darn that reality.
I am always fascinated how emotions trump the reality of the marketplace when it comes to cars and houses. "Those faucets came from Italy!!!!" and somehow the house is priced 100K higher than the neighborhood. The greater fool theory is alive and well in the car and house markets. Hint: if you are in the market to buy... be patient and don't let someone tell you that those options add 20K to a used car...... it does only to the greater fool. If you are selling and you have something on the car that the greater fool will find interesting, then go ahead, add 20K to it, but be prepared to wait, and wait.... you just may find that fool.... or not.
When I purchased my 2009 C2S with 26K miles on it for $53K, I got my reality from the national Manheim auction sales...... if you know someone who has a membership, check it out..... reality bites.
A recent porsche magazine showed values of all the years back. They said all those ut to and including 993 were not "holding" value, not rising. It said all bets are off with concours (sp) level cars. It said all 996 and up are depreciating.
997s, though great Porsches, are mass produced and by definition, not highly collectible. Except for the specialty items, i.e. GT3, RS, etc, it is highly doubtful that a 997 will be nearly as collectible as, say, a run-of-the-mill 993, which was made in not only much smaller numbers, but has the benefit of being over 20 years old and a proven classic as it was somewhat handbuilt back when Porsche was an independent entity and not just another arm of VW Inc.
Buy any 997 to enjoy driving, not future collectibility
"They made too many" is just half of the supply:demand equation, and I've heard it before about lots of cars that are now hot items, including 993s. The thing that changed is demand - used to be they "made too many" Testarossas for them to ever be collectible, too. Porsche did produce a lot of 997s, but if more buyers start shopping (which seems likely as we inch towards an all-electric future), that supply could become less important.
I currently have a 997 Gen 2 C4S Cab. Having owned just about every flavour of Porsche over the past 20 years, I am thinking about this one being a keeper. However also quite keen on a 991 Gen 1 C4S Targa that I have seen at a Porsche dealership. Lovely car but quite different from the 997. What is everyone's thoughts about A) which is the better car to drive . B) if I keep the 997 Gen 2 will it hold it's value? Interested in any feedback since new to posting on Rennlist. Cheers.
A) Personal choice. For example I've driven numerous .2's and to me they are quieter and have a more comfortable and controlled ride than a .1, and have more nannies (the clutch hill-holder for one example). Which is why I prefer a .1 over a .2 and really don't care much for the 991.
If you're tired of your car and want something new and different, that should really be the reason to get one. If you're interested in a value-holding investment, then you really need to go older, not newer. Of course then you have repair cost to factor in.
this didn't take long to descend into foolishness.
who knows wether it will become a classic or not. but starting out with a cabrio will not help when it comes to long term resale
Originally Posted by David993S
Will it hold its value? Maybe......maybe not. It's a mass produced car so it will probably depreciate like most production cars for 10-15 years. After that who knows. But I wouldn't bet my kids college funding on it.
So buy what you like, drive it and enjoy it, and don't worry about what it may or may not do in the future. It's hard to beat the overall experience of a nice 997.2
Originally Posted by Skwerl
Yeah, nobody can truly predict it (look through 10-year-old Rennlist posts on 993s, for example) but you can stack the odds in your favor with a clean 6-speed coupe.
Yes, they made a lot of them, but there are more 997.1 cars and 991.1 cars than there are 997.2 cars, just saying. Yes, they have held their value well over the past 2-3 years, a 2009 with 20k miles cost about the same today as it would have 2-3 years ago. Still, not investment worthy by any means. I assume with 991.1 cars dropping in value, into the 997.2 range, it will be tough for 997.2 cars to appreciate or even hold their value in the short term (1-5 years). Maybe 10+ years from now it will gain 993 type appreciation, MAYBE.
As others have said, and this is very true in the 993 market, Coupe > Cab, and 6-speed > Auto/PDK. As cars age, people want the 6-speed Coupes as collectables, just my observation that seems to be shared with other posters above.
As far as buying a 991 Targa, they are sexy cars, but you will probably see $50k in depreciation over the next 5 years vs the $10k you might see in your 997.2, just a thought. Buy what you like as long as you can afford it!!!
I am always fascinated how emotions trump the reality of the marketplace when it comes to cars and houses. "Those faucets came from Italy!!!!" and somehow the house is priced 100K higher than the neighborhood. The greater fool theory is alive and well in the car and house markets. Hint: if you are in the market to buy... be patient and don't let someone tell you that those options add 20K to a used car...... it does only to the greater fool. If you are selling and you have something on the car that the greater fool will find interesting, then go ahead, add 20K to it, but be prepared to wait, and wait.... you just may find that fool.... or not.
When I purchased my 2009 C2S with 26K miles on it for $53K, I got my reality from the national Manheim auction sales...... if you know someone who has a membership, check it out..... reality bites.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
+1 So very true!
I see this a lot on the trader. Dealers set these high prices only to have them sit for months.
As others have said. The GT3 and RS will be the best bet. Also, appreciation or depreciation is all relative to what you paid for the car. You can grab a high mileage early 997.1 for mid $20k right now. Cover it and let is sit for 15 years. Maybe you can make a few thousand off it and say it appreciated.
Now for some fun... I know this could be way off, but it is something to think about.
There will likely be a few types of buyers in the future for the 997.
The person that will use the car and drive it daily or at DE events:
Milage will equalize the 997.1 and 997.2. Once they both get the stage of needing a rebuild, the engine advantages drop off. The cost of the engine rebuild will be about the same and the M96/97 issues would be addressed in the rebuild. The PDK will not likely be the choices, so the MT cars will be in demand. If PDK is the preferred option, this buyer will also likely look at the 991. Or they will look at the 981S.
The person that wants an older NA car and loves the looks of the “older” 911s:
My guess is most of these buyers will lean towards the 991.1. They want the looks of the 911, but the driving mannerisms of the more refined 991. They will likely opt for a 991.1 over the 997.2 unless a GTS pulls them in.
The collector:
This is the person that will drive it now and then and cover it in the garage. They will want a GTS, GT3, RS or some off color combo.
So so where does the 997.2 fit. It fits with us. We are the 997 guys. We will want them because we like them more than the newer cars. We like the interior better because it feels like the older generation cars. We like the steering and the quirks that these cars have.
They will hit a floor created by the 996 and 997.1. They will have a ceiling created by the 991.1. The question is, where is the floor?
I am always fascinated how emotions trump the reality of the marketplace when it comes to cars and houses. "Those faucets came from Italy!!!!" and somehow the house is priced 100K higher than the neighborhood. The greater fool theory is alive and well in the car and house markets. Hint: if you are in the market to buy... be patient and don't let someone tell you that those options add 20K to a used car...... it does only to the greater fool. If you are selling and you have something on the car that the greater fool will find interesting, then go ahead, add 20K to it, but be prepared to wait, and wait.... you just may find that fool.... or not.
When I purchased my 2009 C2S with 26K miles on it for $53K, I got my reality from the national Manheim auction sales...... if you know someone who has a membership, check it out..... reality bites.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
”The Greater Fool Theory” is superceded by Cognitive Dissonance. That over-priced house on the block or over-priced car - owners on the street will tell you how lovely it is, and you don’t have to look very hard to find people singing the praises of a 997. Internally you are torn between a rational and emotional decision (dissonance) Cognitive Dissonance are outside influences that tilt you in one direction or the other, either supporting your rationality or emotion. So, it is not so much a greater fool coming along as it is someone who is undecided about a purchase and is pursuaded one way or the other by external inputs (that are then internalized). The theory is much more complicated but this is the general idea.
I’ve seen 3 turbo .2 stick cabs for sale nationally over the last 5 months (auto trader/ cars.com)... maybe 12 coupes..always about 27 S cars.....and a ton of GT3s but not sure if they were .1 or .2... 488 cabs made from 10-13 with a stick.....
A magazine “announced” (predicted) today that all 992’s will be turbo. No more N/A GT3’s, if they’re correct.
One thing seems always constant in 911 world. Anything purer, rawer, and classically appreciated, once discontinued becomes vaunted. These are the last of the N/A cars, that will only help them. Depreciation mitigation is the key word here.
But then again who could have ever predicted Donnie would be President?
Sell your Porsches and hold your Bitcoins. Or is it sell your Bitcoin and hold onto your Porsches?
there were not 30,000 997.2's produced. They only produced around 5500-6800 a year which is hardly a mass produced figure since that covers all variants
there were not 30,000 997.2's produced. They only produced around 5500-6800 a year which is hardly a mass produced figure since that covers all variants
Correct, there were not 30,000 997.2's produced. There were 76,259 produced of any and all variants of the 997.2.
During the 997 run, there were 212,704 units produced.
01-02-2018, 09:00 PM
