PASM feels tired
12-31-2017, 11:16 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, I like the idea of the Ohlins but just read about the 30K service intervals. No thanks. I'm not going to tear them off and send them in
every 18k miles (every two years) for two weeks.
OE is looking better and better.
every 18k miles (every two years) for two weeks.
OE is looking better and better.
01-01-2018, 01:35 PM
#17
Every coilover manufacturer stipulates service intervals, especially for heavy track use. Doesn't mean you have to live or die by it. Should be the least of your worries in making this decision.
In the end, do you want factory feel for entirely too much money, or a quality suspension upgrade for the same?
Seems like a no brainer to myself and others who've actually installed Ohlins (and others), but up to you in the end.
In the end, do you want factory feel for entirely too much money, or a quality suspension upgrade for the same?
Seems like a no brainer to myself and others who've actually installed Ohlins (and others), but up to you in the end.
01-01-2018, 01:48 PM
#18
I could use some input from those with experience.
Coming from a 987S with PSS9s and a 981 with X73, the PASM setup on my 22k mile 2005 LE feels soft and uninspiring - if not underdampened. I should also mention that I purchased the 997S in June this year with H&R springs which have been on the car since about 2k miles, installed 12 years ago. I find the X73 ride and body control just right for street and back roads thrills (no track). The PSS9 setup was also good for street with firmer ride but also performed well for occasional track use.
Thinking the PASM shocks may be shot, and taking into account my positive experiences with the PSS9s, I was planning to replace them with new Bilstein B16 (damptronic) coilovers. This would also preserve the PASM functionality. However, after reading this thread, I’m not so sure my expectations will be met.
Couple questions...
1) Those that have experience with the H&R + PASM, does what I wrote sound familiar?
2) Will switching to the B16 setup firm up the soft ride and improve the body control?
TIA.
Coming from a 987S with PSS9s and a 981 with X73, the PASM setup on my 22k mile 2005 LE feels soft and uninspiring - if not underdampened. I should also mention that I purchased the 997S in June this year with H&R springs which have been on the car since about 2k miles, installed 12 years ago. I find the X73 ride and body control just right for street and back roads thrills (no track). The PSS9 setup was also good for street with firmer ride but also performed well for occasional track use.
Thinking the PASM shocks may be shot, and taking into account my positive experiences with the PSS9s, I was planning to replace them with new Bilstein B16 (damptronic) coilovers. This would also preserve the PASM functionality. However, after reading this thread, I’m not so sure my expectations will be met.
Couple questions...
1) Those that have experience with the H&R + PASM, does what I wrote sound familiar?
2) Will switching to the B16 setup firm up the soft ride and improve the body control?
TIA.
Second question is answered by whether you feel the need to have a system function like PASM or not. I've never found PASM useful on less than smooth tracks or roads in non GT cars, so the functionality as an "on/off" switch does not appeal to me when I can simply turn my front wheels and reach in the back of the car and to make more precise adjustments.
01-01-2018, 03:52 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
The short answer is yes, the factory PASM shocks are probably weak, more than likely due to having to work outside of their comfort zone with the lowered ride height with H&Rs. I typically try to guide clients away from using H&R on PASM equipped vehicles for this reason. Many have used this set up successfully, and may not notice the difference, but over the years I have seen accelerated wear on PASM vs Base Bilstein shocks/struts.
Second question is answered by whether you feel the need to have a system function like PASM or not. I've never found PASM useful on less than smooth tracks or roads in non GT cars, so the functionality as an "on/off" switch does not appeal to me when I can simply turn my front wheels and reach in the back of the car and to make more precise adjustments.
Second question is answered by whether you feel the need to have a system function like PASM or not. I've never found PASM useful on less than smooth tracks or roads in non GT cars, so the functionality as an "on/off" switch does not appeal to me when I can simply turn my front wheels and reach in the back of the car and to make more precise adjustments.
01-01-2018, 04:58 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
I could use some input from those with experience.
Coming from a 987S with PSS9s and a 981 with X73, the PASM setup on my 22k mile 2005 LE feels soft and uninspiring - if not underdampened. I should also mention that I purchased the 997S in June this year with H&R springs which have been on the car since about 2k miles, installed 12 years ago.
Coming from a 987S with PSS9s and a 981 with X73, the PASM setup on my 22k mile 2005 LE feels soft and uninspiring - if not underdampened. I should also mention that I purchased the 997S in June this year with H&R springs which have been on the car since about 2k miles, installed 12 years ago.
2005 was the first model year(here in the US, 2004 for Europe) for PASM. Back then, the idea of active suspension was totally awesome! At that time we were racing Cup cars in GrandAm pro racing using 3-way adjustable shocks, making shock adjustments for each track and for changing track conditions during practice sessions, qualifying, and some times even during pit stop in a race. So the idea of having a suspension that electronically adjust was fantastic! After reading the sales literature on the new active suspension(back then) we were so excited that a bought a 2005 997S and drove it straight from the dealer to a race track to try the suspension. Anyway, as many know now, the execution fell short to the idea and the marketing back then. Over the years, PASM has gotten to be incrementally better but your description of that car being uninspiring and underdampened is consistent with what we felt back in 2005 on a stock new car. The disappointing experience though has opened up an opportunity to create a solution.
Yes. With the first gen PASM, lowering the ride height >30mm with springs only exacerbates the underdamping characteristic.
Yes, B16 haves slightly firmer(linear-rate) coil springs and slightly firmer mechanic valving so there's more resistance during compression, it does feel better that way. BUT, on rebound the PASM electronic command to the B16 is still the same command to the original shocks so it will oscillate(feel bouncy). So the better answer to this question is "yes, in some ways but not all". In order to improve body control you need a way to be able to control the electronic commands to either PASM or B16 dampers. The available only solution for that for electronic dampers is a product called DSC.
01-01-2018, 05:58 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
2005 was the first model year(here in the US, 2004 for Europe) for PASM. Back then, the idea of active suspension was totally awesome! At that time we were racing Cup cars in GrandAm pro racing using 3-way adjustable shocks, making shock adjustments for each track and for changing track conditions during practice sessions, qualifying, and some times even during pit stop in a race. So the idea of having a suspension that electronically adjust was fantastic! After reading the sales literature on the new active suspension(back then) we were so excited that a bought a 2005 997S and drove it straight from the dealer to a race track to try the suspension. Anyway, as many know now, the execution fell short to the idea and the marketing back then. Over the years, PASM has gotten to be incrementally better but your description of that car being uninspiring and underdampened is consistent with what we felt back in 2005 on a stock new car. The disappointing experience though has opened up an opportunity to create a solution.
Yes. With the first gen PASM, lowering the ride height >30mm with springs only exacerbates the underdamping characteristic.
Yes, B16 haves slightly firmer(linear-rate) coil springs and slightly firmer mechanic valving so there's more resistance during compression, it does feel better that way. BUT, on rebound the PASM electronic command to the B16 is still the same command to the original shocks so it will oscillate(feel bouncy). So the better answer to this question is "yes, in some ways but not all". In order to improve body control you need a way to be able to control the electronic commands to either PASM or B16 dampers. The available only solution for that for electronic dampers is a product called DSC.
Yes. With the first gen PASM, lowering the ride height >30mm with springs only exacerbates the underdamping characteristic.
Yes, B16 haves slightly firmer(linear-rate) coil springs and slightly firmer mechanic valving so there's more resistance during compression, it does feel better that way. BUT, on rebound the PASM electronic command to the B16 is still the same command to the original shocks so it will oscillate(feel bouncy). So the better answer to this question is "yes, in some ways but not all". In order to improve body control you need a way to be able to control the electronic commands to either PASM or B16 dampers. The available only solution for that for electronic dampers is a product called DSC.
01-01-2018, 07:24 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Also, the OEM PASM system are getting to be more and more active.
01-04-2018, 10:18 PM
#23
Instructor
Great discussion about this situation with PASM and various suspension setups.
This is just the kind of feedback I was looking for - thank you all!
Based on what I’m reading, I’m seriously considering a non-PASM setup.
Anyone know how the Ohlins R&T would compare to the JRZ RS touring coilovers?
This is just the kind of feedback I was looking for - thank you all!
Based on what I’m reading, I’m seriously considering a non-PASM setup.
Anyone know how the Ohlins R&T would compare to the JRZ RS touring coilovers?