View Poll Results: Manual vs Auto
Manual
112
74.67%
Auto
38
25.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll
MT vs Auto
12-01-2017, 05:48 PM
#31
Rocky Mountain High
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think so, although I guess I didn't realize that there people out there who thought the PDK gearbox was a manual transmission.
I do see it called an "automated manual" transmission from time to time, but I don't recall anyone referring to it as a manual transmission. I certainly don't think it's a manual transmission.
I do see it called an "automated manual" transmission from time to time, but I don't recall anyone referring to it as a manual transmission. I certainly don't think it's a manual transmission.
12-01-2017, 07:06 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Hmmmmm iirc A manual transmission has a clutch and a stick to change gears. Sometimes the clutch has hydraulic assistace to engage and disengage the plates .....a pdk has a dual clutch and a stick (or paddles or buttons) to change gears. Using Hydraulics the computer engages and disengages the appropriate clutch The pdk does have the ability to be completely computer controlled without movement of the stick.
I would call the pdk a lazy mans manual transmission as he doesnt have to physically engage/ disengage the clutch. Or an computer controlled clutch transmission vs a manual or leg controlled clutch transmission. An automatic transmission has no clutch and does not need input to change gears, computer or leg or hand. The gears can be maually changed on some automatic transmissions
Dang, almost confused myself.
If you had a button that actuated controlling hydraulics to engage and disengage the clutch would it still be a manual transmission
I would call the pdk a lazy mans manual transmission as he doesnt have to physically engage/ disengage the clutch. Or an computer controlled clutch transmission vs a manual or leg controlled clutch transmission. An automatic transmission has no clutch and does not need input to change gears, computer or leg or hand. The gears can be maually changed on some automatic transmissions
Dang, almost confused myself.
If you had a button that actuated controlling hydraulics to engage and disengage the clutch would it still be a manual transmission
12-01-2017, 07:23 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
You are wrong and deceptive and you see that you never drove in 997 TIPTRONIC S ..
Be sure, on the runway, a driver with TIP S gears in manual mode faster than you on MT.
On paper only. TIP S mode D is slow drop from MT. But this is D (automatic) mode. I agree that it is quite disappointing in D mode, especially without Chrono Sport.
In manual mode with Chrono Sport the story is completely different.
Be sure, on the runway, a driver with TIP S gears in manual mode faster than you on MT.
On paper only. TIP S mode D is slow drop from MT. But this is D (automatic) mode. I agree that it is quite disappointing in D mode, especially without Chrono Sport.
In manual mode with Chrono Sport the story is completely different.
12-01-2017, 07:27 PM
#34
Hmmmmm iirc A manual transmission has a clutch and a stick to change gears. Sometimes the clutch has hydraulic assistace to engage and disengage the plates .....a pdk has a dual clutch and a stick (or paddles or buttons) to change gears. Using Hydraulics the computer engages and disengages the appropriate clutch The pdk does have the ability to be completely computer controlled without movement of the stick.
I would call the pdk a lazy mans manual transmission as he doesnt have to physically engage/ disengage the clutch. Or an computer controlled clutch transmission vs a manual or leg controlled clutch transmission. An automatic transmission has no clutch and does not need input to change gears, computer or leg or hand. The gears can be maually changed on some automatic transmissions
Dang, almost confused myself.
If you had a button that actuated controlling hydraulics to engage and disengage the clutch would it still be a manual transmission
I would call the pdk a lazy mans manual transmission as he doesnt have to physically engage/ disengage the clutch. Or an computer controlled clutch transmission vs a manual or leg controlled clutch transmission. An automatic transmission has no clutch and does not need input to change gears, computer or leg or hand. The gears can be maually changed on some automatic transmissions
Dang, almost confused myself.
If you had a button that actuated controlling hydraulics to engage and disengage the clutch would it still be a manual transmission
PDK based on dual clutch PDK and not similar to Sequential Transaxle Gearbox.
TIP S is based on torque converter and is not similar to Sequential Transaxle Gearbox.
By the way. Also in TIP S when you drive in manual mode the computer does not interfere (except for the risk of the motor.As in PDK)
And if you drive in TIP S with PSM OFF. The computer does not interfere ..
Transmission transfers at TIP S are significantly improved with the Chrono Sport package. I say this from experience.
I think the technology based on torque converter is very reliable and powerful. But there is no doubt that dual clutch technology is faster. But sensitive.
12-01-2017, 07:30 PM
#35
Read again what you wrote and what I wrote down.
12-01-2017, 07:52 PM
#36
Sir Thomas Lord of All Mets Fans
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If I learned anything on RL, there are a hundred ways to enjoy the P-cars we love, and everyone's way is the "best." For me, it's PDK, Sport+, playing with my steering wheel buttons & pretending I am coming down the Mulsanne Straight at the Circuit de la Sarthe...T
12-01-2017, 08:22 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
I started this poll on 991 forum. You can check the stats over there
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1036...pdk-stats.html
It is interesting to see if 997 population is statistically different.
So which one - Manual or Auto (inc. all the flavors) do you drive?
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1036...pdk-stats.html
It is interesting to see if 997 population is statistically different.
So which one - Manual or Auto (inc. all the flavors) do you drive?
12-01-2017, 08:58 PM
#38
Any transmission where the transmission can shift automatically into another gear, is, by definition, an automatic transmission. Doesn't matter if you cal it PDK, Tip, or any other name.
12-02-2017, 12:37 AM
#39
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Results will be inconclusive if some consider PDK a "manual." I hate seeing dealer websites list PDK as a "manual transmission."
Question should be "manual or Tip/PDK?' eliminating subjectivity and discussions about why PDK is not an automatic. It may not be, but it's also not a manual regardless of how internal gizmos operate.
Question should be "manual or Tip/PDK?' eliminating subjectivity and discussions about why PDK is not an automatic. It may not be, but it's also not a manual regardless of how internal gizmos operate.
Unfortunately I failed to find a way to edit the Poll question, and it might be a bit late to do so anyway, as many had voted making their assumptions certain way.
12-02-2017, 01:32 AM
#42
Nordschleife Master
My view is simplistic because it’s a simple question. Auto or manual. 3 pedals or 2 pedals. For example, if you are selling your car on Autotrader.com and the drop down menu for transmission type only has 2 options: manual or automatic, which one would you choose? This is what this poll is asking IMO.
12-04-2017, 04:32 PM
#43
TIP S also has nothing to do with traditional automation.
The fact that there is a torque converter does not mean it is a traditional auto.
Auto This function.
The structure of the transmission system refers to a technological concept.
Both Aston Martin and AMG and more ... use torque converter and TIP S based on torque converter. That means it's traditionally automatic. No!
PDK is based on dual clutch technology. Both vw golf and passat and skoda superb vw are based on dual clutch and PDK based on dual clutch. So suddenly this is not traditional auto? (Cynically)
The traditional auto is without "manual control".
The Bottom Line. There is no Porsche Auto!
It has PDK with manual control and there is TIPTRONIC S with manual control.
It's a matter of time.
Both have 2 pedals and steering control.
One more new and one older and each one has disadvantages and advantages.
My Choice - Tiptronic S.
This is a very reliable and very powerful transmission system and most importantly, should know how to drive it!
This post is just not true. There is no such thing as AUTO.
For this reason only, I chose MT.
The fact that there is a torque converter does not mean it is a traditional auto.
Auto This function.
The structure of the transmission system refers to a technological concept.
Both Aston Martin and AMG and more ... use torque converter and TIP S based on torque converter. That means it's traditionally automatic. No!
PDK is based on dual clutch technology. Both vw golf and passat and skoda superb vw are based on dual clutch and PDK based on dual clutch. So suddenly this is not traditional auto? (Cynically)
The traditional auto is without "manual control".
The Bottom Line. There is no Porsche Auto!
It has PDK with manual control and there is TIPTRONIC S with manual control.
It's a matter of time.
Both have 2 pedals and steering control.
One more new and one older and each one has disadvantages and advantages.
My Choice - Tiptronic S.
This is a very reliable and very powerful transmission system and most importantly, should know how to drive it!
This post is just not true. There is no such thing as AUTO.
For this reason only, I chose MT.
Other than that it is a "traditional" automatic ie: torque converter.
It doesn't have the "feel" of a dual-clutch. Some of that "feel" can be seen as downsides (clunky at low speeds and kicks on fast up-shifts, for example)
You spend a lot of time on why the Tiptronic is special. It's old technology (although Audi and BMW are putting torque converters in cars that once had dual-clutch trans., like the S4 and M5)....
Last edited by Abe Froman; 12-04-2017 at 04:49 PM.
12-04-2017, 05:14 PM
#44
Tiptronic was the first with the +/- notch in the gear selector and a computer to predict the shift patterns.
Other than that it is a "traditional" automatic ie: torque converter.
It doesn't have the "feel" of a dual-clutch. Some of that "feel" can be seen as downsides (clunky at low speeds and kicks on fast up-shifts, for example)
You spend a lot of time on why the Tiptronic is special. It's old technology (although Audi and BMW are putting torque converters in cars that once had dual-clutch trans., like the S4 and M5)....
Other than that it is a "traditional" automatic ie: torque converter.
It doesn't have the "feel" of a dual-clutch. Some of that "feel" can be seen as downsides (clunky at low speeds and kicks on fast up-shifts, for example)
You spend a lot of time on why the Tiptronic is special. It's old technology (although Audi and BMW are putting torque converters in cars that once had dual-clutch trans., like the S4 and M5)....
12-04-2017, 06:54 PM
#45
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
OK, in reading another one of these threads on MT vs PDK vs Manual, I have come up with two definitive tests to end all of the arguing - you ready....
You sure, because it's a doozie...
If you can upshift from any lower forward gear to any higher forward gear without going through all the gears in between, you have a Manual Transmission - anything else is not a manual transmission. See this eliminates the PDK because although it can actually skip gears when downshifting (i.e. 4th straight to 2nd without a stopover in 3rd), it cannot do that when upshifting and the Tiptronic can't do it when either upshifting or downshifting and has to make a stop in each and every gear.
And for the non-believers, here's a second qualifier, if when upshifting or downshifting you can select the wrong lower or higher gear on the same side of the gate and "money shift", you have a Manual Transmission. For example, your hard accelerating through 3rd, then 4th, then when you go for 5th, you hit 3rd again or in the other direction, your downshifting from 6th to 5th, then 4th, but instead of 4th, you catch 2nd. If your car won't allow you to money shift it and destroy your motor, then you do not have a manual transmission, and although in Sport Plus mode with PDK you can log some range 1 & 2 overrevs, you can't get beyond that range and I don't think Tiptronic will log even a Range 1.
You sure, because it's a doozie...
If you can upshift from any lower forward gear to any higher forward gear without going through all the gears in between, you have a Manual Transmission - anything else is not a manual transmission. See this eliminates the PDK because although it can actually skip gears when downshifting (i.e. 4th straight to 2nd without a stopover in 3rd), it cannot do that when upshifting and the Tiptronic can't do it when either upshifting or downshifting and has to make a stop in each and every gear.
And for the non-believers, here's a second qualifier, if when upshifting or downshifting you can select the wrong lower or higher gear on the same side of the gate and "money shift", you have a Manual Transmission. For example, your hard accelerating through 3rd, then 4th, then when you go for 5th, you hit 3rd again or in the other direction, your downshifting from 6th to 5th, then 4th, but instead of 4th, you catch 2nd. If your car won't allow you to money shift it and destroy your motor, then you do not have a manual transmission, and although in Sport Plus mode with PDK you can log some range 1 & 2 overrevs, you can't get beyond that range and I don't think Tiptronic will log even a Range 1.
Last edited by Petza914; 12-04-2017 at 07:13 PM.
