Oil Cooling for track
#31
Rennlist Member
A little digging about what the best temperature to run your oil came up with this.
"A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees.
A full-synthetic oil will withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, and for hard-core professional racing, some oval-track race teams are experimenting with ultra-thin, specially formulated, race-only synthetics operating at 350 degrees or even higher."
So, maybe the only thing the OP needs to do is switch to a racing oil......?
"A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees.
A full-synthetic oil will withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, and for hard-core professional racing, some oval-track race teams are experimenting with ultra-thin, specially formulated, race-only synthetics operating at 350 degrees or even higher."
So, maybe the only thing the OP needs to do is switch to a racing oil......?
#32
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes, it is certainly an option and will be implemented. With racing oil I would have to change it after each track event since it is not designed for long street use (world of compromises). I am reaching out to community's wisdom to mitigate my risk on a fundamental level. Just switching oil is not enough based on reputable engine builders.
#33
Rennlist Member
I switched to MIller's CFS NT for just this reason. It's more of a racing oil but you don't have to change it after each use. There's not much info on it out there but what I did find I liked.
I switched over and did some street miles, an AX and a DE at Laguna Seca and was just about to do an Oil Analysis but I took my car to the dealer to replace my windshield and they topped of the oil with Mobile 1, so it would have tainted my results. I filled fresh and have about 2.5k street miles on this batch so I'll test it soon.
I switched over and did some street miles, an AX and a DE at Laguna Seca and was just about to do an Oil Analysis but I took my car to the dealer to replace my windshield and they topped of the oil with Mobile 1, so it would have tainted my results. I filled fresh and have about 2.5k street miles on this batch so I'll test it soon.
#34
My understanding is that the oil pump in the 996/997.1 is not designed to run the oil through long lines up to a cooler at the front (like the air cooled cars), hence the solution mentioned form racing Caymans earlier. There is a company that makes an oil cooler solution in europe with shorter lines but I think you have to add an extra scavenge pump to one bank of cylinders $$$.
#35
Rennlist Member
Here is an excerpt from an oil analysis guy on viscosities temperatures
• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster than slower flowing thicker oil can. This is especially important with plain main and rod bearings, since the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps.
Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:
15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature
5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature
• Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster than slower flowing thicker oil can. This is especially important with plain main and rod bearings, since the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps.
Here are some comparison numbers from an 830 HP road race engine on the track:
15W50 oil = 80 psi = 265* oil sump temperature
5W20 oil = 65 psi = 240* oil sump temperature
#36
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
#37
Rennlist Member
The mech engineer who is doing the testing makes a lot of sense on flow and viscosities as well as some examples of guys changing oils and having fewer or no failures which appears to back up all his testing and thinking in that report. A member on here posted it a while back and just recently I took the time to read some of it. Interesting thoughts on break in oil too. If I were beating the snot out my engine frequently I would see if a top 10 ranked wear protection 5w 30 resulted in a lower temp then your 40 wt ,it would flow better at high temps then a 5w40. His testing is making me rethink what I am using in my HO marine engine
#38
The mech engineer who is doing the testing makes a lot of sense on flow and viscosities as well as some examples of guys changing oils and having fewer or no failures which appears to back up all his testing and thinking in that report. A member on here posted it a while back and just recently I took the time to read some of it. Interesting thoughts on break in oil too. If I were beating the snot out my engine frequently I would see if a top 10 ranked wear protection 5w 30 resulted in a lower temp then your 40 wt ,it would flow better at high temps then a 5w40. His testing is making me rethink what I am using in my HO marine engine
#39
Rennlist Member
Why are we trying to second guess Porsche? I have used Mobil 1 5w40 for all of the 25k miles, many track weekends, and autox and have 5 Blackstone reports showing nothing but good oil and good wear. That's all that matters--is your oil taking the heat and preventing wear. The rest of it is mental masturbation!
yours or one that has 58 % more wear protection? read the part on oil testing too...it will surprise you.... or maybe you meant 0w40 not 5w40
142. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm
5. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
This new oil replaces the older version called, 0W40 Mobil 1, European Formula, API SN, synthetic. See below for the older version’s ranking position.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Please no oil discussion any more. You welcome to go to different tread and enjoy posting and reading there. Here I am searching for constructive suggestions based on real life scenarios to lower my oil temperature.
#42
Here you go , ranked at 142 of the 200+ oils tested.... read the article and then tell me what oil you would want in your engine..... https://540ratblog.wordpress.com
yours or one that has 58 % more wear protection? read the part on oil testing too...it will surprise you.... or maybe you meant 0w40 not 5w40
142. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm
5. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
This new oil replaces the older version called, 0W40 Mobil 1, European Formula, API SN, synthetic. See below for the older version’s ranking position.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
yours or one that has 58 % more wear protection? read the part on oil testing too...it will surprise you.... or maybe you meant 0w40 not 5w40
142. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm
5. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
This new oil replaces the older version called, 0W40 Mobil 1, European Formula, API SN, synthetic. See below for the older version’s ranking position.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
Beyond that though, there is more to the "which oil is best" debate than can be summed up by measuring one property. The reality is, any particular oil has advantages and disadvantages. There are trade-offs that are made in order to maximize performance in one area over another.
It's no different than asking which tire is best. You could make the most scientific test for testing dynamic friction of a tire rubber sample that is perfectly repeatable etc, but the amount of friction that is available is only one piece of the puzzle. e.g. how long does it last, how quickly/slowly does the tire heat up, what is it's friction at temperatures other than those tested, etc.