When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Nah, GTRs really blend in even more so than old Porsches which are everywhere. In my neighborhood, there is a Veyron, Apollo, CGT, 911R and RS, several 4X8s, F12 tdf and most of the Porsches are turbos.
If you want attention, you need to step up your game here. I could care less, but I was very surprised about how big the M3 following is and women seem to really like it as well perhaps for the color. I also had an Orange RC F for a moment and that thing got way more compliments than the 997.2.
Lol funny how your resentment against a few kids owning BMWs bleeds over and jades a view to an entire brand. The F80 ZCP is actually an amazing sedan, much better than the Porsche alternative . . .
Well in my neighborhood there are a few Ferrari 250 GTOs, Mclaren F1s, LaFerraris, P1s, Bugatti Chirons, and all of the Porsches are 959s or 918s.
In my neighborhood Porsches are pretty much like Camrys, it's like super rich here.
Originally Posted by Austin997.2
Well in my neighborhood there are a few Ferrari 250 GTOs, Mclaren F1s, LaFerraris, P1s, Bugatti Chirons, and all of the Porsches are 959s or 918s.
I dunno, a "FEW" Ferrari GTOs in one Texas neighborhood . . . Perhaps you live in Charles Nearburg's neighborhood in Dallas, but he only has one.
3223GT JB Honesdale, PA, USA
3387GT Bernard Carl, Washington DC, USA
3413GT Gregory Whitten, Medina WA, USA
3445GT Christopher ***, Chapel Hill NC, USA
3451GT Lawrence Stroll, Montreal, CDN
3505GT Craig McCaw, Santa Barbara CA, USA
3527GT Irvine Laidlaw, Manchester, UK
3589GT Engelbert Stieger, Teufen, CH
3607GT Robson S. Walton, Bentonville, AR, USA
3647GT James McNeil Jr., Staten Island, NY, USA
3705GT Ed Davies, Coral Gables, FL, USA
3729GT Jack Sears, GB
3757GT Nick Mason, London, GB
3767GT Anthony Bamford, Oakamoor, GB
3769GT Anthony ****, NY, USA
3809GT Hartmut Ibing, Duesseldorf, D
3851GT Fabrizio Violati, Roma, I
3869GT Giorgio Perfetti, Lainate, I
3909GT John Mozart, Palo Alto, CA, USA
3943GT Charles E. Nearburg, Dallas, TX, USA
3987GT Ralph Lauren, Long Island, NY, USA
4091GT Peter G. Sachs, Stamford, CT, USA
4115GT Paul Vestey, Alresford, Hants, GB
4153GT Christian Glaesel, D
4219GT Brandon ****, London, GGB
4293GT William E. 'Chip' Connor, Incline Village, NV, USA
4399GT Anthony Bamford, Oakamoor, UK
4491GT Giuseppe Lucchini, Brescia, I
4675GT Jean-Pierre Slavic, Mies, CH
4713GT Lulu ****, Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
4757GT Tom Price, SF, CA, USA
5095GT Carlos Hank Rhon, Cuauhtemoc, MEX
5111GT Torrota Collection, E (CH)
Williamson County, Nashville, 7th richest county in country, but no GTOs here . . .
I dunno, a "FEW" Ferrari GTOs in one Texas neighborhood . . . Perhaps you live in Charles Nearburg's neighborhood in Dallas, but he only has one.
3223GT JB Honesdale, PA, USA
3387GT Bernard Carl, Washington DC, USA
3413GT Gregory Whitten, Medina WA, USA
3445GT Christopher ***, Chapel Hill NC, USA
3451GT Lawrence Stroll, Montreal, CDN
3505GT Craig McCaw, Santa Barbara CA, USA
3527GT Irvine Laidlaw, Manchester, UK
3589GT Engelbert Stieger, Teufen, CH
3607GT Robson S. Walton, Bentonville, AR, USA
3647GT James McNeil Jr., Staten Island, NY, USA
3705GT Ed Davies, Coral Gables, FL, USA
3729GT Jack Sears, GB
3757GT Nick Mason, London, GB
3767GT Anthony Bamford, Oakamoor, GB
3769GT Anthony ****, NY, USA
3809GT Hartmut Ibing, Duesseldorf, D
3851GT Fabrizio Violati, Roma, I
3869GT Giorgio Perfetti, Lainate, I
3909GT John Mozart, Palo Alto, CA, USA
3943GT Charles E. Nearburg, Dallas, TX, USA
3987GT Ralph Lauren, Long Island, NY, USA
4091GT Peter G. Sachs, Stamford, CT, USA
4115GT Paul Vestey, Alresford, Hants, GB
4153GT Christian Glaesel, D
4219GT Brandon ****, London, GGB
4293GT William E. 'Chip' Connor, Incline Village, NV, USA
4399GT Anthony Bamford, Oakamoor, UK
4491GT Giuseppe Lucchini, Brescia, I
4675GT Jean-Pierre Slavic, Mies, CH
4713GT Lulu ****, Ronkonkoma, NY, USA
4757GT Tom Price, SF, CA, USA
5095GT Carlos Hank Rhon, Cuauhtemoc, MEX
5111GT Torrota Collection, E (CH)
Williamson County, Nashville, 7th richest county in country, but no GTOs here . . .
You know Chuck as well? Great guy. Like I said my neighborhood is like super rich.
You know Chuck as well? Great guy. Like I said my neighborhood is like super rich.
Cool if you do live in his neighborhood . . . , but your still missing the remainder of that "few" GTOs as no more belonging to people in Texas according to the registry. Isn't his GTO in Peterson Auto Museum in LA?
Cool if you do live in his neighborhood . . . , but your still missing the remainder of that "few" GTOs as no more belonging to people in Texas according to the registry. Isn't his GTO in Peterson Auto Museum in LA?
I'm not sure where old Chuck keeps his GTO, I'm not all up in his business like that, he likes his space, ya know?
The sweetest Mercedes Gullwing drove by a minute ago, so awesome.
As an M4 owner of 2 years who WILL be buying a Porsche very soon, figure I'll add my perspective.
Originally Posted by Iceter
Unfortunately, there are a lot of cars out there that are faster than our 997s. With every year that passes, even lowly domestic sedans begin to approach the speed and power of our cars.
But, kids don't stop and point and yell "nice car" when you drive by in a BMW.
I beg to differ, and my car is just regular *** white. Well, "mineral white metallic" with a few M Performance pieces. Anyway, it gets tons of attention, and while looks are subjective there are more than a few people who love the look of these cars.
I live in the DC metro area, so there's no lack of nice cars around here. Sorry no Big Oil money though so I have yet to see a 250 GTO, but I have seen an F40 at a northern Virginia cars and coffee! There are 997s and 991s in abundance. Mine is just another white BMW but there's actually fewer M4s by my count. I would argue that a 997 looks dated enough to not really stand out around here at all.
My car is also very, very fast. Far faster than I would ever feel comfortable using on the street, in a straight line and around a track... so really as many others have mentioned it's not really a contest with a 5-12 year old Carrera. The Carrera S is much more of a challenge based on numbers that are out there but the torque advantage would favor the M4 in almost any situation. Manuals obviously put a lot on the driver so YMMV.
That said, I'm actually considering either trading this in at lease end for a 991.2 or keeping it and adding a 997 to the stable. It's a great car- but it gets hated on in the press and even by enthusiasts more than any other car I've ever seen (Motor Trend is a major reason why- they really don't like this car for some reason). There's tons of threads around the bmw forums discussing the reasons why, but it mostly gets down to the fact that as some others have noticed, it's more a grand tourer than sports car. The same can be said about the 991 too... but at nearly twice the price point of course it's the better car. But that's the point- what the M4 does well is... pretty much everything and it costs 5/8ths of a 911.
But, it will be outclassed in all the "intangibles" that a true sports car brings which is why I'm left wanting with my M4. Mine is a DCT, I got it because of the ridiculously terrible traffic around here but after two years I'm willing to deal with a manual again. Plus I'm to the point where I recognize I have a deep lust for driving on the track, and I don't really want to deal with all the stress involved with having your daily driver pull double duty as a track car. The 997 seems to fit the bill perfectly (also considering a 981S).
All that said though, I would never replace my M4 with a 997. It's just not a "modern" car at this point, and that's reflected in the performance as well.
How about- objectively, they're both great cars. The used market AT THE MOMENT is actually just about a push for them ($50-60k range for both a 997.2 and 15-16 M4), so the market agrees that they're just about even all things considered. And this is America, isn't that the be-all-end-all anyway?
The enthusiast demographic isn't as far off as you'd think either. I'll admit that the "non M" crowd can be as annoying as the Subaru/Mustang/Camaro" crowd if we're talking stereotypes, but to my experience M car drivers are less obnoxious. Of course you'll have your standout jackasses, but the same goes for Porsche as well (wouldn't catch me dead street racing, FWIW). I'd also venture to say that many current Porsche owners have stepped up from M cars in the past, just like I'm looking to do. Maybe that's part of the bias? Who knows.
As an M4 owner of 2 years who WILL be buying a Porsche very soon, figure I'll add my perspective.
I beg to differ, and my car is just regular *** white. Well, "mineral white metallic" with a few M Performance pieces. Anyway, it gets tons of attention, and while looks are subjective there are more than a few people who love the look of these cars.
I live in the DC metro area, so there's no lack of nice cars around here. Sorry no Big Oil money though so I have yet to see a 250 GTO, but I have seen an F40 at a northern Virginia cars and coffee! There are 997s and 991s in abundance. Mine is just another white BMW but there's actually fewer M4s by my count. I would argue that a 997 looks dated enough to not really stand out around here at all.
My car is also very, very fast. Far faster than I would ever feel comfortable using on the street, in a straight line and around a track... so really as many others have mentioned it's not really a contest with a 5-12 year old Carrera. The Carrera S is much more of a challenge based on numbers that are out there but the torque advantage would favor the M4 in almost any situation. Manuals obviously put a lot on the driver so YMMV.
That said, I'm actually considering either trading this in at lease end for a 991.2 or keeping it and adding a 997 to the stable. It's a great car- but it gets hated on in the press and even by enthusiasts more than any other car I've ever seen (Motor Trend is a major reason why- they really don't like this car for some reason). There's tons of threads around the bmw forums discussing the reasons why, but it mostly gets down to the fact that as some others have noticed, it's more a grand tourer than sports car. The same can be said about the 991 too... but at nearly twice the price point of course it's the better car. But that's the point- what the M4 does well is... pretty much everything and it costs 5/8ths of a 911.
But, it will be outclassed in all the "intangibles" that a true sports car brings which is why I'm left wanting with my M4. Mine is a DCT, I got it because of the ridiculously terrible traffic around here but after two years I'm willing to deal with a manual again. Plus I'm to the point where I recognize I have a deep lust for driving on the track, and I don't really want to deal with all the stress involved with having your daily driver pull double duty as a track car. The 997 seems to fit the bill perfectly (also considering a 981S).
All that said though, I would never replace my M4 with a 997. It's just not a "modern" car at this point, and that's reflected in the performance as well.
How about- objectively, they're both great cars. The used market AT THE MOMENT is actually just about a push for them ($50-60k range for both a 997.2 and 15-16 M4), so the market agrees that they're just about even all things considered. And this is America, isn't that the be-all-end-all anyway?
The enthusiast demographic isn't as far off as you'd think either. I'll admit that the "non M" crowd can be as annoying as the Subaru/Mustang/Camaro" crowd if we're talking stereotypes, but to my experience M car drivers are less obnoxious. Of course you'll have your standout jackasses, but the same goes for Porsche as well (wouldn't catch me dead street racing, FWIW). I'd also venture to say that many current Porsche owners have stepped up from M cars in the past, just like I'm looking to do. Maybe that's part of the bias? Who knows.
RE: Market Value
Comparing 2 to 3 times older without a warranty and somewhat less specs and they are basically the same price. The M will also keep going down. I think the 997.2s have pretty much stabilized in price.
If one does not need a back seat, the 997.2 is a much better driver's car than an M4 and a much more all around enjoyable experience to won than an F8X. I much prefer driving my wife's BASE 997.2 CAB than my F80ZCP which I am currently trying to trade after 7 1/2 months of ownership.
Attention wise, my YAs Marina Blue F80 ZCP does get WAY more attention than the 997.2. I am kind of taken back by how many people tell me they have always wanted an M3 and how many kids still view this as the cool car.
Comparing 2 to 3 times older without a warranty and somewhat less specs and they are basically the same price. The M will also keep going down. I think the 997.2s have pretty much stabilized in price.
If one does not need a back seat, the 997.2 is a much better driver's car than an M4 and a much more all around enjoyable experience to won than an F8X. I much prefer driving my wife's BASE 997.2 CAB than my F80ZCP which I am currently trying to trade after 7 1/2 months of ownership.
Attention wise, my YAs Marina Blue F80 ZCP does get WAY more attention than the 997.2. I am kind of taken back by how many people tell me they have always wanted an M3 and how many kids still view this as the cool car.
Agreed on all fronts- but that's just my point. The M4 still has a warranty and is by all accounts a more modern car, hence the market value being the same. Was trying to be super obvious that I recognize this won't last by saying AT THE MOMENT in all caps. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the 997 will continue to appreciate based on what I've seen in the past few months.
And the back seat is a huge differentiator. The 3/4 series back seat is actually very functional; the 911's is very much not. Until this point right now, I required a back seat. Not so much anymore, which is why I'm considering moving on from the M altogether.
And why should you be taken aback? The M3(4) has ALWAYS been a cool car, why is it any different now? This gets back to observations I've made for a while now, pretty much ever since I decided to pivot from buying an E92 M3 and get the F82 instead... the overall acceptance for this generation M3/4 has been abysmal despite the fact that it is objectively better than its predecessor in every single measurable category. I'll concede to what some say about the sound- the F8X doesn't sound nearly as bad as some try to say, but definitely not as good as the E92. Turbos will do that, it's the cost of progress (unless you're Porsche apparently, except for the 718). People also whine about the steering, but the E92 steering wasn't as great as people claim. Dimensions too, whaaa whaaa it's bigger than an E36. Porsche did the same thing with the 911 (also with the steering). Sure it's easy to say Porsche did it better. with the 991.. but somehow BMW has still "lost their way" and the same rules don't apply to Porsche.
Anyway, I'm not here to argue, just reinforce my opinion that they're both amazing, cool cars that each have their own distinct advantages, both objectively and subjectively. I'm hoping to have both in my garage soon.
And why should you be taken aback? The M3(4) has ALWAYS been a cool car, why is it any different now?
This is just me, but I always viewed the M series cars as those who compromised and could not step up to purchase at least a 911. I still do more than ever after giving BMW a shot and buying the F80. It was kind of a, well I gotta at least buy one M car and check that box thing for me, but I am just generally not very enthusiastic about it and doubtfully would purchase another BNW. Too much better stuff out the for just a little more $$$.
As an M4 owner of 2 years who WILL be buying a Porsche very soon, figure I'll add my perspective.
I beg to differ, and my car is just regular *** white. Well, "mineral white metallic" with a few M Performance pieces. Anyway, it gets tons of attention, and while looks are subjective there are more than a few people who love the look of these cars.
I live in the DC metro area, so there's no lack of nice cars around here. Sorry no Big Oil money though so I have yet to see a 250 GTO, but I have seen an F40 at a northern Virginia cars and coffee! There are 997s and 991s in abundance. Mine is just another white BMW but there's actually fewer M4s by my count. I would argue that a 997 looks dated enough to not really stand out around here at all.
My car is also very, very fast. Far faster than I would ever feel comfortable using on the street, in a straight line and around a track... so really as many others have mentioned it's not really a contest with a 5-12 year old Carrera. The Carrera S is much more of a challenge based on numbers that are out there but the torque advantage would favor the M4 in almost any situation. Manuals obviously put a lot on the driver so YMMV.
That said, I'm actually considering either trading this in at lease end for a 991.2 or keeping it and adding a 997 to the stable. It's a great car- but it gets hated on in the press and even by enthusiasts more than any other car I've ever seen (Motor Trend is a major reason why- they really don't like this car for some reason). There's tons of threads around the bmw forums discussing the reasons why, but it mostly gets down to the fact that as some others have noticed, it's more a grand tourer than sports car. The same can be said about the 991 too... but at nearly twice the price point of course it's the better car. But that's the point- what the M4 does well is... pretty much everything and it costs 5/8ths of a 911.
But, it will be outclassed in all the "intangibles" that a true sports car brings which is why I'm left wanting with my M4. Mine is a DCT, I got it because of the ridiculously terrible traffic around here but after two years I'm willing to deal with a manual again. Plus I'm to the point where I recognize I have a deep lust for driving on the track, and I don't really want to deal with all the stress involved with having your daily driver pull double duty as a track car. The 997 seems to fit the bill perfectly (also considering a 981S).
All that said though, I would never replace my M4 with a 997. It's just not a "modern" car at this point, and that's reflected in the performance as well.
How about- objectively, they're both great cars. The used market AT THE MOMENT is actually just about a push for them ($50-60k range for both a 997.2 and 15-16 M4), so the market agrees that they're just about even all things considered. And this is America, isn't that the be-all-end-all anyway?
The enthusiast demographic isn't as far off as you'd think either. I'll admit that the "non M" crowd can be as annoying as the Subaru/Mustang/Camaro" crowd if we're talking stereotypes, but to my experience M car drivers are less obnoxious. Of course you'll have your standout jackasses, but the same goes for Porsche as well (wouldn't catch me dead street racing, FWIW). I'd also venture to say that many current Porsche owners have stepped up from M cars in the past, just like I'm looking to do. Maybe that's part of the bias? Who knows.
Had to respond to your post as we live in the same area. To your point, how much power do you really need driving on our roads? I have a 997.2 S and I'm sure there are a 1000 cars since mine came out that are faster in a straight line, but how long is that line?
Is it the next eighth of sixteenth of a mile to the guaranteed red light ahead? Do I drag every Tesla or Audi S4 / Infiniti looking to say they beat the Porsche, or even better, the F-150's or Mustangs? This car's a toy for me and I have it dialed in just the way I want it - believe it or not it's still capable of getting me into a VA reckless driving charge in pretty short order as well.
BTW - no knock against M3 / M4's at all as I think they're cool cars. Good luck with your search.
08-11-2017, 03:08 PM
