champignon

It is no secret that the hydraulic movable spoiler system which many admire, that is installed on the 966 TT vehicles, has proven to be very unreliable. They tend to leak and are not easily or cheaply repaired. There are at least 3 possible solutions offered to "fix" this situation (repair/replace vs. electric motor system vs. fixed in position), not to mention a number of aftermarket spoilers that people choose to install on these cars.

Porsche states in their owners manual that proper functioning of this spoiler is required for safe operation of the car, at least beyond a certain speed (~75 MPH). One can speculate whether this was inserted in the manual at the insistence of the Engineering Dept., the Legal Dept., or the Marketing Dept., but in the end it is something written down for which little actual proof is provided.

Given the frequency of the failure of the hydraulic system powering the spoiler, and the undeniable fact that many people either don't repair it at all, replace the spoiler with another spoiler, and/or leave the the spoiler in a fixed position, there are obviously some empirical observations that can be made by people driving these cars in such a condition.

I would like to model this thread after those threads on Rennlist where members report their own experiences with Intermediate Shaft Bearing (IMS) Failures, which can occur in most Porsche sports cars (excluding turbos) coming from model years between 1998 and 2008. Although imperfect, those threads have collected some useful data that others can read through in the future as an aid to purchasing decisions and how to manage their own particular problems with this issue as they occur.

I am soliciting actual driving experience reports of those driving with an inoperative, fixed, or modified spoiler in these 996TT vehicles. Experiences reported can be either subjective or objective.

An example of a subjective report would be, "The spoiler on my 2001 TT stopped working on my way to work, I was going 83 mph on the freeway, and all of a sudden I felt like the car became hard to control."

An example of an objective report would be, "The spoiler on my 2001 stopped working on my 2001 TT when I was on the freeway going 83 mph, I lost control, and my car ended up in the ditch."

Someone else might report that their spoiler stopped working 3 years ago, they bought the cheap kit on ebay to fix the spoiler in position, they have driven 12,000 miles since (some description of how they use the vehicle), and did not notice any difference whatsoever.

I will end this post by supplying the first reported experience on this thread, e.g. my own. Two weeks ago I bought a 2003 996TT with 75,000 miles on it. Two owners ago the spoiler hydraulic system failed and was removed, replaced with the fixed in position cheap ebay solution. That owner drove the car for around 11,000 miles with no accidents reported. The next owner replaced the spoiler with an aftermarket GT2 spoiler, which he fixed into a very low position, and had no problems in 1500 miles worth of ownership.

My own experience is I bought this car 2 weeks ago, as above, knew nothing about these spoiler systems (other than that they break frequently and are expensive to fix), drove the car in blissful ignorance for 900 miles over mostly rural roads, from the purchase point to a residence, then subsequently 100 miles in town (mostly freeways), then finally another 155 miles to get to my real house. Over this ~1150 miles, the car was driven almost exclusively at highway speeds, mostly between 75 and 85 mph, mostly for at least 100-200 miles without interruption, with occasional bursts to ~105 mph, over many sorts of roads, predominantly twisty turny mountain roads, passed hundreds (or more) vehicles in the process, and observed absolutely zero problems in driving, or controlling the car, nor problems with vehicle operation. This included one high speed accident avoidance maneuver when a large truck pulled out directly in my path on a 2-lane road, which I avoided quite easily with braking and abrupt steering maneuvers.

My own observation is that with a GT2 type spoiler mounted in a low, fixed position on this car, that the car handled perfectly and there were no issues.

Hopefully we can accumulate some actual observations from other owners here to begin to have some real data points to consider.

"02996ttx50

it took you longer to type that, than you have owned the car lol.

you have no experiential data ( and couldn't..) that is relevant yet, and not even an (a) comparison with spoiler up/down VS (b) "fixed"! esp, given the limited length of time of your ownership of the car, and any possible differential btw driving conditions for that to be worthwhile. whether empirical or even anecdotal. hitting 100mph for a split second or two(?) ( congrats on passing a few cars btw! ) hardly qualifies here as any worthwhile informational data that might or could change anyone's mind regarding zuffenhausen's determination that a "spoiler" aids in the "handling" characteristics of the car. but i AM now beginning to understand why you are encountering so much *resistance* "here"

if i were you, i'd keep both the spoiler AND my head down you *may* find far LESS "resistance" to wind, hot air, and even criticisms. but.. nice try!!

ya just couldn't "let it go".. could ya? but i empathize lol

champignon

I am actually not terribly interested in changing anyone else's mind, however I remain open to having my own mind/opinion changed. The seller of my car provided me with the original spoiler, showed me where the electrical connection is in the rear, and for between $1500 and $2500, I could have a fully functioning movable spoiler on my car with no difficulty whatsoever. I can easily afford it also, just put it on my Visa and collect some miles for my next trip :-)

What I am looking for is some sort of evidence that this thing actually does anything useful for a person not tracking their car. I remain unconvinced, am a born skeptic, and love to bust myths, whatever they are about, no matter the topic. In my opinion, our world has too many people who accept whatever they are told, and in many cases what they are told does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny. I am not like those people, I'm not a sheep, and apologize here for that.

I challenge the membership of this forum to provide some actual proof that this spoiler does anything other than look cool, when it goes up and down, for other drivers who use their 996TT on public roads. Please prove me wrong, and I'll go out and pay for the repairs to my car, put the stock spoiler back on, and enjoy watching it rhythmically, hypnotically, going up and down!

Perhaps what we need is a contest offering a prize for a verifiable report of spoiler malfunction or modification, leading to a verifiable accident? How much should the reward be, to generate some interest?

"02996ttx50

i dont believe anything I'm told. but i am a believer in "downforce".

just think of me as a fifth dimensional "newtonian" lol. ( i.e.. a walking contradiction, partly truth, partly fiction)

add: btw the presumptive in your "challenge" is flawed given that few here suggest that the spoiler working its "magic" in "city driving" would in fact make much of a difference in handling or stability. again, porsche asserts the 73 up and 35 down is the ticket, and that's enough for many of us though yeah, at 55 mph, you,.. me,.. NO one is gonna "know" ha.

btw. try the spoiler re-bleed. it costs about 25 $ US ( not counting labor if not a diy'r? ) which is actually a factory recommended ( and written w diagram/schematic ) suggestion for inconsistent and faulty spoiler operability. if it were me? i would be concerned about buying any 996 turbo with an inoperable spoiler for fear there might be other unattended/neglected items, that might be soon to fail, that didn't have such an easy "fix", as the spoiler does.

champignon

My description of the vehicle I purchased is not germane to this thread I started, here. Nonetheless, this car has had in excess of $20,000 expended on it in the last 2.5 years/12,000 miles and I have the receipts to prove it. The engine has been dropped TWICE in this time for a complete replacement of the hydraulic steering system, then later for complete replacement of the coolant system. New brakes, total transmission overhaul with new 2nd gear synchro, more than I can list here. In addition, everything that could be done reasonably with a dropped engine, such as spark plug changes, was done each of the two engine drops.

The spoiler is as it is due to the choice of the person I bought the car from; he liked it that way. The seller was even more of an **** person than I am, which was easily verified in our conversations and upon meeting him :-)

"02996ttx50

unfortunately, that isn't really a determination you get to call!

even "more "****"?! i'd need more than "receipts" to have me believe that! lol..be that as it may..

irrespective of some coolant retrofitting, asserting that a PO "sold you w receipts" on their spend of "20" k, hardly mitigates the reality that you have apparently bought a car with an inoperable spoiler!(?) ( is this the motivating factor in your assertions?, or have i missed something in your vehement and misguided assertion that a "working spoiler" is of little ( if any ) "consequence" vis a vis the overall drivability of the car?

hence this repeated assertion of yours ( which few will co-sign ) that "spoilers don't matter" ( or are superfluous "plumage" ) on porsche 996 turbo's! ( have i paraphrased your position fairly? )

the spoiler i must again add, is a critical component that influences the overall hi speed stability, and handling of the car lol. or as porsche would have us believe :

what is your thread about again? sorry

the problem ( as i understand the peculiarities of one who - such as yourself ) - is afflicted with and exhibits the hallmarks of what is referred to as being, "**** retentive"..is usually a marked, and often pronounced inability to simply "let things go"! (?)..

was just a thought

champignon

The seller spent $1250 on the aftermarket GT2 spoiler, then $2730 on new tires and wheels, partially because he thought the OEM Porsche wheels looked like **** with the aftermarket spoiler. Yes, he told me that, on the phone, and in person when I came to test drive and bought the car. Summary statement, he loved the aftermarket spoiler and he tried hard to talk me into leaving it on the car, as it was. He could have just bought the electric spoiler motor instead, for $1500, plus or minus replacing the tires on the stock wheels, had he decided to do that. His intention was not to sell the car, he wanted to own and drive it, but then his wife got pregnant, so he sold it (or his wife forced him to sell it) a few months and hardly any mileage after he did all this stuff, not to mention the $8500 2nd engine drop, transmission overhaul, and coolant system replacement he did a couple of months before that . . . .. did I forget to mention, that he loved that aftermarket spoiler, fixed in position? :-)

This is a guy, who pointed out to me a cigarette burn in the carpet, almost underneath the driver's seat, that I would never have found myself, before, during, or after, the sale. I said he was ****, probably an understatement.

Not interesting, and again, not germane to the original topic, but responsive to your questions :-)

"02996ttx50

agreed. it was a diversionary tactic i fairly obviously attempted to employ in the hope it might disabuse you of the misguided notion, that spoiler inoperability has no discernible effect on the handling and overall stability of the car at speed, at anything over 73 mph.. and up LOL

i have no questions

Atrox

Dude give it a break you have clearly stated that you are new to p-cars and know next to nothing about them. Instead of trying to spout off nonsense in long winded threads why don't you stick to the sidelines for awhile. If you have a VALID question by all means ask it, but your general attitude tells me you are just a troll plain and simple.

Im new to p-cars only having owned one for 3 years. I don't claim to be an expert, I'm far from it. Use this forum for its intended purpose which is to ask the many experts for help. You will find that there are many experts that are all willing to help. Don't be "that guy"

champignon

Thank you for your efforts to define which questions may and may not be asked on this forum. Your comment above is an attempt to stifle, not to promote, discussion. Since you appear to have no real interest in this topic, I suggest that you spend your time on topics interesting you. This is data gathering, not data interpretation. When some data is gathered, it might be appropriate to ask "experts" for their interpretation(s).

Again, I am asking for any of the many owners of 996TT vehicles, having malfunctioning or modified spoilers, to report their experiences driving these vehicles.

Thanks in advance.

mffarrell

Again, I am asking for any of the many owners of 996TT vehicles, having malfunctioning or modified spoilers, to report their experiences driving these vehicles.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

How is that working for you so far?

mffarrell

Don't feed the troll.

Dock

What actual data are you using to assign the "very unreliable"? For example, do you have data regarding the total number of failures versus the total number of 996 Turbo's produced?

BioBanker

when my hydraulics started to leak I replaced the system with a fixed height wing kit and a GT2 replica wing. This was before the current alternatives were available.

My car pumps out so much downforce that anything over 5mph it's doing a wheelie. I had to install a wheelie bar to keep it from flipping over on the highway

champignon

Why can't YOU PEOPLE give it a rest? You are obviously not interested in this topic other than having the same people tell you the same things over and over again? That does not fit my definition, or any definition, of intelligent conversation. If the point of an internet forum of enthusiasts is to collect and to share information, you are doing everything you can to prevent that.

I have paid my membership fee here, the same as you have. I have every right to pose any question or questions I desire, same as you. You have every right to ignore me and my posts, and I suggest that you do so.

There are at least 3 "solutions" for sale for failed spoilers on these cars. These products would not exist if there were not enough failures to make producing these things profitable. That is simple economics.

Since you are disinterested in this topic, just go away.