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School me on MAF less

Old 03-28-2017, 03:10 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by dprantl View Post
Well that's disappointing... I would have thought Porsche would put a true MAP sensor after the throttle...

Dan
We are going to add a post throttle body MAP sensor for my application.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:03 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Dock View Post
EVOMS called the particular tune I purchased the Stage II Hammer tune. If you have issues with what they called it, take it up with them.

The EVOMS tuning in my 996 Turbo used the OEM MAF. Like I said, I used my OEM original MAF with this tunning until January of this year. With the V-Flow and an exhaust upgrade (I have the Europipe Stage II Loud), EVOMS advertised 520hp/520 lb-ft of torque.

520 hp and 520 lb-ft of torque (or whatever it actually has) is for me a great street driving target level (today, and as it was over 12.5 years ago), and it has been very reliable (while retaining the MAF and using the V-Flow).
sorry, i thought you had said "hammer time".

the guy asked about a maf LESS tune! not your "hammer tune". so i asked about the pants. my bad.
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Old 03-28-2017, 11:05 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Dock View Post
EVOMS called the particular tune I purchased the Stage II Hammer tune. If you have issues with what they called it, take it up with them.

The EVOMS tuning in my 996 Turbo used the OEM MAF. Like I said, I used my OEM original MAF with this tunning until January of this year. With the V-Flow and an exhaust upgrade (I have the Europipe Stage II Loud), EVOMS advertised 520hp/520 lb-ft of torque.

520 hp and 520 lb-ft of torque (or whatever it actually has) is for me a great street driving target level (today, and as it was over 12.5 years ago), and it has been very reliable (while retaining the MAF and using the V-Flow).
sorry, i thought you had said "hammer time", so i asked about the pants. my bad.

btw..the guy asked about a maf LESS tune! not your "hammer tune".
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Old 03-28-2017, 12:37 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by "02996ttx50 View Post
the guy asked about a maf LESS tune! not your "hammer tune"...
See post #6 to find more information regarding tunes that retain the MAF.
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Old 03-28-2017, 04:05 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by "02996ttx50 View Post
hammer time! love it..assuming it came with the pants? there was a lotta of room there as i recall. ( can't touch this )

so, tunes have improved, or so it is said. an evoms w hitachi setup is no longer the "latest and greatest", rather more like what was available 12-15 years ago. much like the the cargraphic/fvd/evoms/giac and whomever else of the "time". if all one hopes to achieve is a smooth running car touching 500hp crank? then ok, sure.

but the reason your car runs so great ( like mine w an "old tune" and "old" hybrid 16/24 turbo's.. ) after simply changing spark plugs ( lol ) is mainly because you haven't asked anything more of it since you tuned it!

all kidding aside. your evoms "stage 2 kit" first introduced when the 996 turbo was lol.. consisted of a flash tune, and air filter ( fancy/schmancy ) the hitachi maf ( or was that another add-on option? ) and some spark plugs while doubtless better than stock, and also better than nothing else, it didn't then ( and sure isn't now ) exactly setting the world on fire. just made it a bit warmer.

pics of the pants with the tune.. or it never happened


The Hitachi sensor came about in 2008 around the time when we went from GIAC to our own in-house tuning under 'EVOMSit'. That catalog of files has continued to evolve ever since, with major upgrades being made and released over that time. We have an active upgrade program converting older cars to the latest and greatest hardware and software which often results in gains of 50-100wtq, 15-30whp, and 200-400rpm spool over what was done 'back in the day' on anything from a bolt-on Stage 2/3 car to a bigger build. Dock, if you're interested shoot me an email about this and I can fill you in as your setup would probably benefit greatly from these updates. [email protected]

Regarding the hardware, much of what was designed and sold going back 10-15yrs has withstood the test of time and is still very functional and relevant today. Some advancements have been made in fuel systems (SRM), software, and the details of the hybrid turbos available, but I don't think there's a lot of other real innovation out there compared to what was being tried, tested, and installed 10 years ago. There are just a lot more cars running at higher levels as the price of the cars has come down and more people have started working on them.

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Old 03-28-2017, 04:10 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by EVOMS View Post
Dock, if you're interested shoot me an email about this and I can fill you in as your setup would probably benefit greatly from these updates.
Thanks Sam, I'll do that.
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Old 03-28-2017, 04:12 PM
  #22  
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I will preface this by saying for what I want out of my car I was hesitant to go with MAFless for issues mentioned previously.

I elected to go with Cobb Accessport for my tuning because of the easy/convenience/usefulness of the device, and I selected Sam at By Design to tune for me after researching for weeks/months.. I did not ask for a MAFless tune, but Sam told me that if I didn't like how it behaved he would set me up with a MAF tune and that he would be willing to bet I would be much happier with a MAFless setup.. I road course my car, so I spend a lot of time in throttle transition and various throttle positions at all rpm ranges.. I went to my first DE with the MAF-less tune earlier this month and it is flawless. Smooth, extremely responsive, powerful. No hiccups, no hesitations, no bad behavior. No one would know if the car has a MAF or not. I ran a few laps with an instructor since it was my first time at this track and I asked if he felt any ill behavior from the engine in the passenger seat and he did not. I would be the first to say if something was not how I wanted it to be, but I am impressed every time I push on the car.

As a bonus, I get better gas mileage now too, somehow lol. I guess you can say it is slowly paying for itself. I am using a BMC air filter in stock airbox, with stock piping for now. Sam and I will revisit the tune shortly when I make some changes to the intake.

Honestly, I think that no matter which direction you go with a tune, go with someone reputable. The tune can make or break the driving experience. A bad tune can ruin your car whether you have a MAF or not. Do it right. Sam at By Design, EVOMs, Kevin at UMW seem to be the people you need to talk to. Really won't go wrong with any of them IMO.

I have entire session logs from my track day with MAFless if anyone wants to review particular data points.

As always, thanks for setting me up Sam!
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Old 03-28-2017, 05:47 PM
  #23  
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Cheers my friend and cheers to that. There are some great options and I'm proud to say we are friends. Again on the note of the Cobb... remember you don't have to do MAFless. It's an option
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Old 03-28-2017, 06:19 PM
  #24  
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"Sam and I will revisit the tune shortly when I make some changes to the intake."

T10Chris;
Post some pics of ur Mafless set up. Y-pipe,intake filters etc.

I would like to see it.


Thxs Rich

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Old 03-28-2017, 07:07 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by EVOMS View Post


The Hitachi sensor came about in 2008 around the time when we went from GIAC to our own in-house tuning under 'EVOMSit'. That catalog of files has continued to evolve ever since
yeah, well.. dock's hasn't.

but what i'd really like to know.. do you guys really call that "evoms stage 2 kit" w dv's and that v-flow intake the "hammer tune"?!

or was he just pulling my ( pants ) leg?
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:48 PM
  #26  
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Old 03-28-2017, 07:56 PM
  #27  
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"02996ttx50 - In case you cant read the invoice I posted above...

Link--> http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...e-upgrade.html
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Old 03-28-2017, 08:18 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Dock View Post
"02996ttx50 - In case you cant read the invoice I posted above...

Link--> http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...e-upgrade.html
now i understand. i needed pictures.

well, you should've been given a key chain with the tune.

apologies to the op, the thread, and all.
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Old 03-28-2017, 09:52 PM
  #29  
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$2250.00 back then was a lot of Cabbage for a tune.
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Old 03-28-2017, 10:16 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by RDS928S View Post
$2250.00 back then was a lot of Cabbage for a tune.
It was a good deal and worth the money given how early in the car's existence this tuning was available, and how few tuning options there were on the market at the time.

Having talked to EVOMS today about upgrades to my tuning, I found out that my Stage II Hammer is actually at 530 hp and 530 lb-ft. My SOTP meter would agree with those numbers. It's perfect for the street driving I do; I don't track my car, and I don't street race, so my SOTP assessment is the only thing that counts. Given the performance and reliability of the tune, its been the perfect answer for me. I have no desire for more power.
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