ORL996TT

Just recently picked up a 2002 996tt with H&R springs that a previous owner had installed and kept the stock shocks on it. The shocks are worn, the ride is too low and it handles terribly. I worked out a bit of the wobbles with new rear control arms, but there is still much improvement to be had.

It comes down to M030 ROW springs paired with Bilstein B8's to raise the car up a bit and settle it down.

I have called numerous shops in Orlando, FL and only one seems willing to install them (German Excellence), but they don't yet have the capability to align it (at least until March). Their initial solution to my wobbles (in addition to control arms) was to install rear toe links (adjustable) from tarret to mave the toe in further to compensate.

I basically want a setup that does not require adjustable toe links and that can be aligned to a proper specification and I am pretty sure the M030 ROW springs/B8 setup will get me that...however, one of the guys at the shop seemed to think that if the car is lowered at all I will need this part.

Suggestions?

g-50cab

Go here - talk to Eric or Ron Zitza

http://zotzracing.com/id17.html

Listen to what they tell you - it won't be cheap - but it will be right.

"02996ttx50

i feel your teeth jarring pain.

couple of points to share, based upon my running this setup for years with zero complaints.

the adustable toe links ( I use the torque solutions ) will help compensate for the WOT *squat* that occurs and help to flatten the stance and ride of the car. this will occur whether you're doing the twist, or the WOT straight line pull. adj toe links: they're just an "adjustment" that you *need* on a lowered car. too much toe on lowered cars eats tread. so your inner rear tread wear will thank you, longer term. which for me is 4k miles. i'd hate to think what i'd get in miles on rears, had i not adjusted all this to the best of everyone's ability lol.

that said, the mo30 ( yesteryear! ) or B8 ( similar ) dampers paired with h&r red springs is a terrific combo for "dual duty" use provided all else is dailed in.

mo30's dampers are really difficult to source given their age. so the bilstein B8's with the red H&R's ( or eibach's same eg = ) will serve the same purpose and deliver the same enhanced ( though admittedly, stiffer than stock ) ride quality.

the advice you are being given re the toe links is spot on. just do it, you'll thank someone.ust replace with H&R red "sport" or comparable mid level eibach's lowering springs.

they are correct. you need that part.

re: alignment. you *may* need to rethink whatever you've been running(?) and begin with factory X73 and/or GT2 numbers and adjust from there.

jeremyck23

check out OHLINS R&T suspension system. I have changed mine last year and its been great, and I highly recommend it.

ORL996TT

Thanks for the suggestions.

g-50, I plan to call them tomorrow! For sure.


02996 - I can get the full M030 spring/shock kit from carnewel. Problem is that the kit is about 2100 euro, so about $2300.00. That puts me into coilover territory, and I would just assume do coilovers for that money.

However, they suggested the OEM M030 ROW springs paired with either the B6 or B8 bilstein shock at about $1300 total. I can live with that.

As the car sits right now, it is on original US spec shocks and H&R springs and sits a lot lower than I would like, and rides terribly. But like you said, getting the proper toe adjustment will fix some of that.

So what is your input on M030 springs/B8 shocks versus H&R shocks/B8's? I think with the M030 the rear is only 10mm lower than stock, so that may not even require toe links....

Jeremy - I've looked into that, but what is the highest ride height you can set on those? I don't want a very low car..sorry, I know that seems lame.

993GT

you don't need adjustable toe links for H&R sport springs height...get some fresh OEM or Bilstein dampers and enjoy
The Ohlins R&T is awesome...

fung0001

May i asked a stupid question here
how do i know that a replacement of suspension need? Someone told me that we need to replace if the car acts like a boat
so mine is as hard as a steel and works well🤓 Right?

"02996ttx50

i can say with a fair degree of confidence you'll not be able to discern any downside difference btw the HR's ( reds ) and the MO30 springs, as they are really close. keep in mind that a ROW height is about -20mm, so that would be a result of the springs, less so the dampers. so if you want "stock? get the b6 and the MO30 springs.

the b8's they are the closest damper you can get to approximate the MO30 dampers but again, bear in mind that the b8 is specifically setup for use in a lowered TT. but you'll be fine. i think the drop would be closer to -30mm with the b8/mo30 spring combo, as my car is sitting approx -40mm with the MO30/hr ( and "fresh" reds ). springs are cheap and need replacing far sooner than the dampers will as they can/do lose their "spring" especially if they are sagging as yours sound as if they are. this all comes down to the amount of "drop" you seek nd how close you want to stay to "stock" ride height/quality. again i'll say, that the best compromise combo that will most closely retain stock "feel/look" would be the b6/mo30 combo. while the mo30 paired with the b8's will be a bit lower and firmer, but perfectly offset with a proper alignment and the TOE LINKS lol

gert is terrific and can advise you if you detail what your goals are as you have here, but think of the b6 dampers as same as what you now have "stock height/ride quality ( once refreshed i mean.) etc, and the b8 as a sportier, slightly firmer ride. the b8 is more than adequate to the task and will accomplish exactly what you need. those would be MY choice and my setup is again, very similar to yours minus the harsh ride/sagging lol..

i'm not the kind of person that wants to fiddle with ( at least adjustable ones ) coilovers ( or even spend the bread ) just so i can say i have them lol. they are not necessary unless dedicated tracking is a frequent occurrence, and my car but a lowly dedicated daily hillclimber/canyon carver and still, it's tight as a drum. but i have a cpl other connected add on bits ( gt3sways/semi solid mm's etc ). i have what i need and want, and it sounds to me as if the spring/damper combo you have once improved will effectively and economically suit your goals perfectly, as it has for thousands of "us".

that said, the toe links are just something you DO need to complement those new parts, if the car is to be lowered by anything more than 20mm if you do want to eliminate the negative effects of "sagging" that most noticeably and often affects inner tread wear on the rear tires.this to help to mitigate the "squat" that occurs at WOT on a lowered car. the TS adj links, they're cheap. the TS i got were maybe $350/400 and the springs about the same... and yeah, gert's the man in Brussels lol. i got my raid 340mm wheel from him and he's never steered me wrong lol. cheers.

"02996ttx50

"need" is a subjective term, rob. if one is daily driving sedately to the corner market? then perhaps they'd be "overkill" and a superfluous addition? but once i installed the TS links, my inner tread wear life was improved dramatically. he is trying also to eliminate sagging.

so...NEED? perhaps not.. but on a -40mm lowered car, they are not money wasted.

depends on one's goals and driving conditions, i suppose.

gophaster

The reason folks swap out the toe links is because they offer much more adjustment range than the stock toe link adjusters. As you lower the car you have to bring the toe back into spec and once you lower past a certain point the stock toe link adjusters run out of adjustment.

If you go with any of the stock spring versions you should not need the adjustable toe links. You should be able to get the toe to spec with the stock toe adjusters.

Also once you do the toe links you might as well do the rear toe lockout plates since now all your rear toe adjustment will be done with the new toe links you no longer need the stock ones. Folks have reported that in some cases the stock toe link adjusters can slip and throw off your toe. Lock out plates will take care of that.

I went with H&R Street Coilovers (btw they are built with Bilstein shocks and are really nice + they are sub $2k) and since I was not positive whether or not I'd need the rear toe links I decided (based on much advice from here) that I'd rather install the toe links to avoid installing the entire suspension and get to the alignment shop then have them tell me they cannot get the toe back into spec because I need toe links. I already had them installed and the alignment shop was able to align my car DEAD accurate. I also have the rear lock out plates.

Suspension + proper alignment (in my case I went with the slightly more aggressive GT2 alignment specs) made a huge difference in the way the car responds and feels on the road. Money VERY VERY well spent!!

BTW, try and find an alignment shop that has experience with Porsche and preferably has experience setting up track cars. It may cost slightly more but you will probably end up with better results. If you were in South Florida I could highly recommend the shop Apex Alignment, tremendous shop and the owner is a track nut that personally does each car by appt only.

"02996ttx50

^ very well put.

993GT

Just sayingggg, while the adjustable toe link are a nice upgrade, at H&R spring height you aren't required to use aftermarket toe links to get the alignment right...I do however sell aftermarket/upgrade and OEM parts...

s65e90

shoot me an email: joseph- at- coastaladj (dot) com

I have ROW springs from a 996 turbo in South Florida. Will be just what you need. They also have OEM struts, just need new top mounts.

"02996ttx50

you're the expert, so i wasn't 2nd guessing you as I'm foolish, just not that foolish hah

but i HAVE been knuckle dragging around in the two tt's for almost a decade and only know mine needed them

ORL996TT

Thanks all for the suggestions...I have called Zotz racing..just waiting on a phone call back.

I understand coilovers are a great setup...but I think it's more than I need or really want. When I get presented with options like that and the nearly endless amount of adjustment I tend to overthink it and obsess a bit..so I just want to keep it as simple as I can.

The M030 ROW option only lowers the rear 10mm, and the front 20mm. Further...it's an OEM (albeit euro spec) setup, so I would think that it would stay within OEM tolerance as far as the toe angle, the Porsche dealer seems to think so also. However, I am willing/prepared to install toe links if I need to. There's literally only 3 shops that I think will do the work that I trust (one of them being the dealership of all places).

I think I'm going to order the M030 ROW with B8 sport shocks from Gert and go from there.

On a side not..if I need adjustable toe control arms...whom do you suggest. So far I like what I see by Tarret or Elephant racing. Can I go wrong with either brand?