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The Prestige Thread - Finest 996TT Market Finds

 
Old 02-07-2019, 12:17 AM
  #1366  
z8911
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I would say that the seller wasnít prepared for a bringatrailer auction. When you put your car on bring a trailer and it truly has no stories, you need to prove it with pictures the day the auction goes live. The seller did not do this and he paid for it. That car is a $55k+ car. I also noticed he wasnít answering questions punctually. I have personally seen a tiptronic 996TTS with ~80k miles sell for around the price this aerokit 6 speed car sold for. The 6 speed S cars have so many things going for them and they are exceptionally rare. I also sold an 04 cab in S spec 6 speed with accident history in OK condition and 100k miles for 43k. The buyer got this car for an absolute steal.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:48 PM
  #1367  
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That car is a $55k+ car
$55K value for a 100K mile turbo S? Ummm no.

Maybe "one-day, some-day", but sure as hell not today.

Why is the 2005 S desirable? Three factors:
  • Lower production numbers which appeals to some collectors. Except the high miles more than offsets its current collectibility.
  • PCCB Bakes included. Except 100K miles on original PCCB rotors mean they are likely cooked or nearly so...
  • X50 Turbos included. Except adding power to our turbos, X50 or not, is ridiculously easy, so no need to pay a premium for a factory X50 car.
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Old 02-07-2019, 06:16 PM
  #1368  
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The notion you are making is laughable. When an X50 has an exhaust and a tune itís pushing 600 hp. Canít do the same with a base 996 turbo. Also, you are neglecting to mention that the car has gt2 intercoolers, and that the PCCB option gives the car 6 piston calipers vs 4 piston calipers on the base car. All from the factory. Does your base car ever need new brake rotors? Yes it does, and when you put steel rotors on your car, you wonít have the added benefit of more powerful 6 piston brakes and being able to fit larger rotors like on a PCCB optioned car. In addition to these things, 996 turbo Sís were cheaper compared to if you had gotten pccb and x50 options together in earlier cars. As a result, people loaded these things up with rare options. They are also the newest 996 turbo you can buy. ~150 6 speed coupes worldwide is very rare. Iím not saying that base 996 Turboís suck (I own one), but there is a reason Turbo Sís sell for a nice premiuim and why this particular car is a $55,000 car.

I have attached these comparable cars from bring a trailer that have sold within the last year.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-cabriolet-11/

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...911-turbo-s-6/


https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-911-turbo-12/

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...11-turbo-s-10/

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...-911-turbo-10/

Last edited by z8911; 02-07-2019 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:08 PM
  #1369  
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Originally Posted by z8911 View Post
The notion you are making is laughable.


So glad I can bring a laugh to our six-post contributor.... If it was such an unbelievable deal of a $55K car for $46K, why didn't you buy it?

I don't think you'll find many here with 996 turbo knowledge who would take a 97K mile S over a 60K mile non S at the same price in similar cosmetic condition just to have a set of worn out PCCB's with larger calipers and larger turbos that 1) aren't nearly as good as whats available in aftermarket performance turbos and 2) a bit laggy without tuning.

But options, man options. Go for it if thats what you want...

I will readily admit that ***COLLECTOR VALUE*** of a 996 Turbo S can be high for near-perfect, lower mile examples. Again, that's for guys who want to add the perfect specimen to their collection, and comparatively cheap vs. collectible 993/964/930 Turbos. That was not the car on BAT though...

Last edited by pfbz; 02-08-2019 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:14 PM
  #1370  
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..
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:35 AM
  #1371  
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I think you both have a point.

Would someone on this forum buy a 95k miles S over a 60k regular Turbo for the same money? Probably not. But we only make up a small fraction of the Turbo owners and general sports car buyers abroad. A guy I know who isn't a Porsche person - isn't even really a car person, went crazy over a tip S cab PURELY because it said S on the back. There are a TON of buyers who will pay a premium for the S badge not even knowing this car is rarer, more powerful, more expensive to maintain etc. As we have seen through past auctions, BAT brings out a lot of nutty buyers. Thus, I too think this car sold significantly lower than it should have.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:21 AM
  #1372  
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Originally Posted by sgtpeper View Post
]
Would someone on this forum buy a 95k miles S over a 60k regular Turbo for the same money? Probably not. But we only make up a small fraction of the Turbo owners and general sports car buyers abroad. A guy I know who isn't a Porsche person - isn't even really a car person, went crazy over a tip S cab PURELY because it said S on the back. There are a TON of buyers who will pay a premium for the S badge not even knowing this car is rarer, more powerful, more expensive to maintain etc. As we have seen through past auctions, BAT brings out a lot of nutty buyers.
I think your right on... I tend to think of "value" in the eyes of a knowledgeable buyer rather than an auction bidder that doesn't really know what they are buying.

It happened to me a few years back... I was at the local Mecum auction hunting for my next Porsche and was up front when this gorgeous Saleen S281 SC rolled up on stage... It seemed cheap, raised my hand a couple of times, and BANG it was mine! I really had no idea exactly what I bought and the market values of them. I overpaid a bit for the car due to my lack of expertise (though it was extremely clean). At any rate, it was a fun car, but ultimately it didn't take long before I was shopping for another 911. So does my "auction overpay" define market value or conventional transaction with a buyer more knowledgeable about Saleen pricing define market value. I tend to think the second, but BAT definitely has many examples of that same "auction overpay".

[Just for giggles, here is the yellow monster...]


Last edited by pfbz; 02-08-2019 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:26 AM
  #1373  
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Yes you did indeed give me a laugh with your original post and now even more of a laugh with your condescending tone in this one. I didnít buy the car because Iím not in the market for one...because I own not one...but two, including an S. It also seems like you donít realize that you can put steel rotors on pccb optioned cars?

The key to the value in the 996TTS is that it came with performance parts in limited production from the FACTORY. I can put a huge turbo and NOS on a civic and it would blow the doors off a modded 996 turbo for much less money. Does this make the civic a better car? A real easy way for you to grasp this though, is to bring up mid year corvettes. Thereís probably 100,000 of those things, and theyíre all worth a good amount of money, but there is a HUGE price disparity between 327 and 427 cars. This is because one had performance upgrades from the factory and one didnít. Sure, you could drop a big block into a small block car and make it faster than a 427 would be from the factory with a more agressive cam and head work, but at the end of the day it didnít come from the FACTORY that way so it wonít be worth nearly as much. And donít even get me started on options for collector cars... ďthis car came optioned with A/C, power steering, a 427 tri power big block, side pipes and is one out of only 651 Nassau blue 4 speed coupes to leave the factory in 1967Ē... Ďcorvette collector unzips pants and opens checkbookí

Do you see what I mean?
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:39 AM
  #1374  
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Originally Posted by z8911 View Post
Do you see what I mean?

Nope. But if you thinjk tuning and upgrading to hybrid turbos on a 996 non-S turbo is like putting nitrous on a Civic, compared to the glorious option-badge-engineering that was the Turbo S, we are WORLDS apart so I won't bother trying...

Good luck with your rare, factory, collector S. In another fifty years, it might actually be worth $1M and you can tell me "I told you so..."
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:07 AM
  #1375  
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Originally Posted by pfbz View Post
Nope. But if you thinjk tuning and upgrading to hybrid turbos on a 996 non-S turbo is like putting nitrous on a Civic, compared to the glorious option-badge-engineering that was the Turbo S, we are WORLDS apart so I won't bother trying...

Good luck with your rare, factory, collector S. In another fifty years, it might actually be worth $1M and you can tell me "I told you so..."
My point with the civic is that just because a cheaper car is faster doesnít mean itís just as or more desirable than the car itís beating. Itís no longer a fair fight once you start talking about serious aftermarket stuff.

I wouldnít bet on a million bucks, but Iím pretty confident the silver one on BAT is worth $55k+ in 2019 if it was in the condition described and the seller did their due diligence in selling on BAT (which they clearly did not).

Just remember that rising tides raise all ships and your turbo has gone up in value these past few years due to the turbo S. Not the other way around, nor will it ever be the other way around. The same can be said for lower mileage cars raising the price for higher mileage cars. Some of you guys may remember the slate grey turbo S at Marshall Goldman a few years ago with 250 miles. That car sold for over $200,000...

Also, big disclaimer here! I am in no way what so ever trying to tell you guys that these cars are good investments. They wonít be in the sense of it beating out well bought real estate or other potentially high growth investments. With that being said, manual turbo S coupes have seen a pretty noticable jump in price over the past few years. You used to be able to find low mileage cars for $60,000 not too long ago. Now if you want a 20k mile car youíre looking at spending at least $85k.

P.S. that mustang you bought looks terrible

Last edited by z8911; 02-08-2019 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:29 AM
  #1376  
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Originally Posted by pfbz View Post
So glad I can bring a laugh to our six-post contributor.... ..
What does his post count have to do with the subject being discussed?
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:00 AM
  #1377  
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What would you say the price differential is for turbo s vs 996 turbos of the same ilk/color/etc. $10k, $20k?
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:11 AM
  #1378  
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Originally Posted by LazySumday View Post
What would you say the price differential is for turbo s vs 996 turbos of the same ilk/color/etc. $10k, $20k?
If super low mileage on both the S is worth $20k more. As the mileage on both increases the gap narrows.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:39 AM
  #1379  
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I bought my TTS in 2015, pretty much near the bottom of the market for these cars. I bought it because a TT has been on my bucket list for years. I like to buy last production year cars and this fit the bill. Same reason I selected a 2003 M5 over other years; everything else being equal.

My opinion is that future value is totally unrelated to HP. If it was, a 90 hp 356 wouldnít be valued more than higher hp Porsches, nor would a 67 or 68 911 be priced higher than more modern 911s. What appears to drive any TT price is;
1) Factory rarity based on factory vin; not later bolt-ons (Manual shift coupe TTS and GT2 996s were produced in fewest numbers)
2) Market driven desire for low mileage (over rated in my opinion, but the market makes this decision)
3) CarFax reports (the market puts a lot of stock in the report content)
4) Available maintenance records

Itís not about which is the better car. A TTS is not a better car than a TT with the same specs. A big part is factory rarity. And there is one other feature of a 996 TTS thatís seldom discussed; it is the last manual shift TTS car. For the 997, manual was only available on the TT, not the TTS.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:49 AM
  #1380  
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Originally Posted by autobonrun View Post
Itís not about which is the better car. A TTS is not a better car than a TT with the same specs. A big part is factory rarity. And there is one other feature of a 996 TTS thatís seldom discussed; it is the last manual shift TTS car. For the 997, manual was only available on the TT, not the TTS.
Donít forget that it is also the last limited production, end of production run 911 Turbo S before the ĎSí designation became merely a trim package.
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