"02996ttx50

there is no immediate reason i need to change the wheels. it is an ongoing issue i have yet to address, but am in the process of addressing it here and now lol. the lugs would not be snapping on trips to the market etc so while i await the solution to arrive ( better lugs ) i will drive even more mindfully and check the bolts weekly. my tire shop is a mile up the road and i'm known there. it's no issue to stop in for some air and torque lol. on all other counts my car is imminently drivevable


.. and kevinmac i will indeed look into the anti-sieze and see what's up if that would help. i still haven't found what might be contributing to this beyond OBVIOUS ( to me ) lateral stresses on them given where/how i *mostly* drive. but thx for the tip.

powdrhound

Ton of guys have had problems with the ACS (Apex) studs snapping. Check the GT3 forum. I'd stay away from those.. I bet the machining on your wheels is off thus preloading your bolts and snapping them.

"02996ttx50

short of having them looked at by who? ..a machinist?? i'm gonna give lugs one last try while *watching* them carefully!

apex told me it's no go on studs that'll fit anyway, since the bolt size is different. i'm hoping german/better made lugs cure the issue.. as the wheels aren't *expensive* enough ( should i just say cheap lol ) enough to take to machinists and mess with them. if new tuv bolts do not solve this ( again ) then i'd be looking to score a new(er)? set of, i dunno...probably like those ccw's of yours.

remember me please, if they become available.

Kevinmacd

Good luck, let us know how you make out! Sometimes the easiest things produce the best results!

nick49

As stated in my post #18 you can easily check your wheels with Dykem. I think Maxster's on the same page with his prussian blue recommendation in post #26, although he's under the impression you have OE type spherical bolts rather than conical.

I take it you don't understand this concept, so I'll explain. Start with your worst wheel off the car. Clean the bolt hole tapers with brake cleaner and a rag or brush. Clean the bolt tapers the same way. Use some Dyken machinists bluing layout fluid and paint each lug bolt taper.

DYKEM, This is a very thin, very fast drying dark blue dye that you paint on clean metal. It's used for revealing "witness" marks for checking metal to metal interface relationships. I use it all the time doing things such as what you are trying to do. I also use it in motor building such as to reveal valve seat to face contact areas, bearing to shaft contact, etc.

Now carefully place the wheel on the hub and start threading the bolts. The idea here is to very evenly tighten them just to the point where the wheel will no longer move for and aft but the bolts are not tight. Next comes the difficult part. You want to tighten and "feel" very sensitively each bolt as you progressively and evenly tighten each one. I'd use a deep socket only turning it between your fingers without additional leverage. Once they are all finger tight, I'd attach a lever like a breaker bar, ratchet, etc. Now tighten only 1/8 turn more using a star pattern. At this point, remove 3 bolts, and evenly while supporting the wheel, the last 2.

Now carefully observe if and any dye transfer form the bolts to the wheel hole tapers. If everything was done correctly, the dye will be evenly removed from bolts and evenly transferred to the wheel holes. Irregularly on either is a result of the checking technique not done correctly or poorly and inaccurately machined wheel mounting holes. If you know what to look for you can also check bolt to wheel taper match this way.

If poor or no witness marks appear repeat the above and torque an additional 1/8 turn or so. As soon as enough resistance is felt to transfer the dye stop and check. If you go too far, you will get 100% transfer as the bolt will start to bend or deform. This is where the stress comes into play that "hard" bolts cannot tolerate for long without snapping.

If the wheel was 100% correctly machined with respect to the hub, even poor quality bolts would hold up to the task. As stated before 100 ft lbs of torque for a bolt this size is a low load. Be aware that chrome plating will generally decrease the strength of the bolt as well.

I don't know if it's worth your trouble to do this and how mechanically skilled you are but I thought I'd give you a little insight on how you can find your problem. For me this is just another day at the office.

"02996ttx50

thanks nick for the detailed explanation. i will have to print it, and refer to it if/when i speak with anyone capable of the foregoing procedure(s)?, as it sure won't be me. suffice it to say that your day in the office is closer to a day in sunday school for me! but i will take all of that under advisement, and again, thanks.

"02996ttx50

.. an update for closure.

i am very embarrassed to say, i had lugs of mixed origin, as well as taper! and they apparently didn''t thread/seat properly causing the incorrectly seated ones to fail. i am thankful both for any previously proffered advice from thoughtful forum members and participants, as well as the semi anonymity of the forum, as i am now hanging only my virtual head in shame lol.

i went with all new 12mm tuner lugs all around. will re-torque over the weekend, and see how they are holding up.