iman11348

9Eleven;
You must have me confused with the original poster of this thread. I DO have a an 05 turbo S with all of the stuff you quote above PCCB etc. ( Do a search of my posts for pics)
I have no idea who is right or wrong on this issue as I am relatively new to this. I came across the thread I quoted about engine and transmission codes on Renntech.org and thought I would add to this thread. I also have learned that Loren at Renntech is very well regarded and considered by many on this board to be very credible on such issues. I have no idea what source he is using to determine what these codes mean.
Having said all this, I would not find it difficult to believe that the Turbo S would have this much HP, considering tuners are getting near 500 hp with ECU flashes, certainly Porsche can do likewise! My GUESS would be they would not put it in their official specs for the very reason you cite regarding other models i.e. GT2.
Whatever the true HP of the Turbo S, it is more than I can handle and I will be concentrating on learning how to drive it to enjoy it to its max!

tkerrmd

Great statement wish more would think like this instead of how can I spend my money modding a great car!!

calturbo

I believe the 2005 GT2 and Turbo S have the same motor and turbos, thus the same HP rating. The GT2 is lighter (no back seats and a role bar). Other than that what is the difference?

9Eleven

No they don't. Slight difference '05 S is 450hp vs '04, '05 Gt2 is 477hp. Several other differences, no AWD, different clutch, tranny cooler, LSD, suspension, etc.

9Eleven

Based on this photo, it is not an S. Those are steel brakes, unavailable on the '05 S.

Condor Man

That was a good pick up...

Boston Duce

IMO the official output numbers are consistently underrated by the factory. Should someone call them on it, they have published an output rating that can be consistently obtained within manufacturing tolerances.

Loren may have been reporting on a particular well tuned example run under ideal conditions, or may have mathematically calculated the HP based on published acceleration times and mass values.

My 2005 US Turbo S brochure and order guide lists the HP @ 444. Non-S Turbo's were rated @ 415.

Regards,
BD

calturbo

I have owned several turbos and my 2005 Turbo S feels like more than 450HP. Below is a list of car I have beat from 0 to the top of third gear (97 MPH):

2007 M5 (not even close)
2007 Z06 (very close)
2005 -06 Gallardo (1 car length)
2007 997TT (still had new plates)
2002 996TT 620HP TechArt (2 car lengths)

iman11348

I agree that the pic posted by Tominek does not appear to be a turbo S and that the published specs of the turbo S is approx 450 hp. No argument about that. What Loren was referencing was not a "particularly well tuned" or moded turbo S. He was decoding the engine and transmission codes which should be the same for other turbo S sticks and indicating hp based on these codes of approx 483 hp. I agree that these are not the published numbers on this car but not out of the realm of being believable.

So, what is the difference in the 05 GT2 ENGINE v. 05 TT-S besides the mapping? Not asking about clutch, awd etc.

9Eleven

Here you go.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....article_id=100

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...gt2/index.html

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/porsche-911-history40.htm

Condor Man

Where has our Mate Tom gone??

Do you think he purchased the car on the advise that is an S and has therefore been had???

I hope not!!!

Topless TTS

Not to be picky, but these articles do not really say much as to the actual difference in the powerplant alone of the GT2 vs TTS or X50. Matter of fact, one of them states the GT2 HP being approx 450.

No question the GT2 have everything you mentioned...."no AWD, different clutch, tranny cooler, LSD, suspension, etc." and other weight reduction mods to make it quicker than TTS/X50. But is there really a difference in crank hp for the GT2 vs TTS/X50 like iman11348 was asking, particularly since they have the same block, K24s, ICs, and exhaust? Are there any other differences to explain the hp other than potentially a difference in the ECU, and has that been confirmed? If they are all the same, then what Loren is saying would make sense.



Qualifier: I'm admittedly in no way an authority, but I've wondered the same through my readings from the 3 popular P forums and just trying to learn and appreciate our cars more. (Newly registered just to respond to this thread)

9Eleven

No they don't have the same intercoolers or exhaust. The 2 also has an increased boost pressure/mapping. That is the difference in the HP. From the R&T article, "Twin turbochargers are at the heart of the engine, pumping out 14.5 psi of boost versus the Turbo’s 11.6. More efficient intercoolers and a revised exhaust also contribute to the GT2’s extra power." Like I said, the '02, '03, Gt2 had 456 sae, 462 bhp, the '04, '05, had 477 sae, 483 bhp. The x50 and the S have 444 sae or 450bhp (depending on what hp calibration you're using) they became very close in hp output to the 2 when the k24's were installed in '03. A simple flash and exhaust and your x50 or S are at 500 plus hp to the flywheel. Hope this finally clears it up, I'm exhausted.

calturbo

But to my point, the engines are the same.

9Eleven

All 911 (996) engines are the same. 3.6 litre flat six. There are simple deviations or modifications that make them produce more horsepower or rev higher. The main difference between the Gt2, Gt3 and turbo is the Gt1 crankcase and true dry sump lubrication. The non-Gt and non-Turbo 996 models don't have it. The point is, that the x50 and the S model do not have a 483 hp rating from the factory, period. Whatever your dyno tells you is for you to decide.