Apex Late

Hello all,

I am curious to know if anyone here has had problems with the Roock coilover package. I know that a number of people on this board use the H&R system, which is actually what Roock sells with some small changes. However, the Roock kit has caused some significant damage to my 2002 996TT. Has anyone got it working properly ? If so what are the settings (i.e. ride height front and rear, toe, caster, camber etc) ? Mr. Roock tells me that there are hundreds of cars working perfectly well with this system. Could some of you please write back?

In 3000 Kms with the kit I have managed to destroy most of the suspension bushings as well as bend both rear control arms. The kit did not allow for adjustability as Roock had promised and I had the car set to the "factory" settings that Roock suggests.

I contacted Mr. Roock and he suggested that I send the package to him for him to inspect. I sent it overnight and called him the next day. He gave me a ton of shi* about moving shops and said he would get to it right away. He dodged calls for days and finally 7 days later I caught him and he said that he would call me by the end of the day. He didn't. Today I caught him again and it has now been 9 days that my car has sat waiting for a conclusion to this matter. In the end he took 2 minutes and said that everything was fine and it must have been an installation error. All I have to say to that is, I took it to a qualified shop and installing a suspension is not rocket science.

It is unfortunate that Roock is following the same path in North America that they followed in Europe. I hate to bash anyone but these guys deserve it. I now have a useless suspension and about $5000.00 damage to my car. All I wanted was for him to do something, anything to try to rectify the situation. But instead he came off like the weasel that he is! Mr. Roock if you are reading this, just ship my suspension back to me so that I can throw it in the garbage myself. Money well spent!!!
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Burnham

Hmmm, that does not sound good...I hope you get your baby sorted out anyway. I'm sure this advertising for Roock will give them the boot they need.

Nice garage by the way!

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Oak

Apex Late, sorry to hear about another person that's been ripped by Roock. I am surprised this person is still in business.

I have the H&R, and I am very happy with the set up, when you say, "same as H&R with some small changes", what are the small changes? I can't see much cahnges in improvements that can be done, besides maybe the dampeneing rates, or the type of materials used. It doesn't seem to require improvements in geometry for better handling?

Do you track your car? Could the premature wear be from extreme side loads caused from track days and R compund tires? Did you have your car corner balanced?

Curious?

GreggT

I have Gemballa/H&R set-up which my local shop (Kelly Moss Racing) installed, though I also have a fair amount of Roock work also on the car.
I've finished second season of driving-tracking the car (w/this set up) and no problems. To answer your question on settings....for camber I have around a neg .6 in front, 1.7 in back. Toe .05 front, .13 back, and Caster 7.5
So...nothing radical there, all those #s are pretty much w/in spec cept maybe front camber......as was mentioned corner balance, and reset of steering angle sensor is generally recomended.
We had my car up and down a bit before we arrived at the final ride height....those who have seen my Turbo know she's pretty low, slightly raked profile....sorry, don't have height demensions.
Too bad about your problems...Good luck in sorting that all out..... GreggT

Apex Late

Oak,

Thanks for the response.

To answer your questions:

The small changes are all surrounding the dampeneing rates, which are supposed to be custom to Roock. Roock told me that they did "EXTENSIVE TRACK TESTING" to determine the proper valving and then they custom order the pieces from H&R. However, given the way this whole thing has gone I'm inclined to not believe the claims of Roock.

I do track the car on a regular basis. I did not have the opportunity to use R compounds as they were not available in the correct sizes for the rear this year. However, the car should not have sustained the problems it did simply from the cornering loads. The damage was done from improper ride heights and the inability to adjust the car to a higher ride height in the front.

Lastly, I did have the car corner balanced and properly set-up before I took it out.

Roock told me and my tuner before the install that the "Factory" would pre-set the height and send the set up information based on the extensive testing that they had done. We used these figures to set the car up (sorry I don't remember what they were at this point). In conclusion we did everything that they told us to do and it just does not seem to work.

I am very interested in knowing what the set-up was on your H&R's. Ride height seems to be the the problem. The Roock front suspension was limited on the upper end and created a measurement of 1.9 for Rake. It is my understanding that the car should be .8 for rake. The additional Rake creates numerous problems with the car. I have been informed that the .8 can not be reached with the Roock system although Roock disagrees. Roock told me that we could go another 10mm higher in the front but there are only 5 threads left on the upper part of the adjustment(maybe 3mm) even if we could go 10 mm it would not be enough to resolve the ride height issue in the front.

It was very interesting to me to find out that when the guys at the tuner that I am using confronted Roock with the issue he simply said that if I wanted to track the car I should be using a TechArt suspension as it is more appropriate for the track. What the hell does that mean ? What is his suspension good for ? <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

GREEK-TURBO-RACER

Apex Late. I would like to help here. Reading your problems with Rook, I am obviously not impressed.

If your car is with Nick and Giovanni, the only thing I have to tell you is that you couldn't be in better hands.

Believe me when I tell you, " take their word as gospel!! " They know what they are doing !!!!!


Theo

Apex Late

Greek Turbo Racer,

My car is with Nick and Giovanni. I sent it to Toronto a few weeks ago because I was having little success with efforts here in Ottawa.

I have been very impressed with the treatment that I have received from both Nick and Giovanni. There knowledge in this area seems quite extensive and this is also why I am inclined to believe them over Mr. Roock. They have a lot of experience with suspensions and they have no reason to snow me with regards to their assessment of the Roock product.

GREEK-TURBO-RACER

Apex, I am glad your car is there. Needless to say, their many years of experience of servicing/tuning/racing these cars, have produced many BULLET PROOF cars. For street and track use.

Only thing I can say with the Roock bullsh*#, try to be patient, maybe get a refund of some sort from them, and let Nick and Giovanni build your car where you will be happy.

Theo

Apex Late

GTR,

I contacted Mr. Roock and gave him the opportunity to make things right. I was interested in a refund or a credit against something like wheels (anything really). I did not even discuss the money that I had invested in installation or the damage assessment. I simply wanted him to address the money that I had paid him for the product. He didn't want to hear anything of it and simply said that he sold me the right product and that there are hundreds of these systems working fine and it was not his problem. We are not talking about a lot of money it is just the principle of it. No one likes to get screwed.

Funny thing is that if he HAD stood behind it and done something to show good faith I would have probably been on this board talking about how he was a good guy and how many of the things that we have read were not my personal experience. Instead he has reinforced what so many others have said here before and now I get to JOIN THE CLUB. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

RWO

Not only are they still in business, they just rented or purchased a building in Roswell, GA, a suburb of Atlanta. They have been doing extensive remodeling on the building. I can't figure out where they fund their business from given the negative press I have read about them...

Roy

GreggT

[quote] The Roock front suspension was limited on the upper end and created a measurement of 1.9 for Rake. It is my understanding that the car should be .8 for rake. The additional Rake creates numerous problems with the car. <hr></blockquote>

OK......I may not be understanding correctly here but "rake" pretty much just refers to the front/rear (up/down) profile of the car, not really an alignment term.....more a matter of personal preference (like anything, taken to an extreme, can screw other things up)....whatever.

Just a final question....did I understand correctly you had the Roock/H&R suspension parts installed, set-up, aligned, by a shop in Ottowa? I realize as you say "installing a suspension is not a rocket science".....however...it's not a 'walk in the park' either (if the cars to be driven at speed, tracked, etc).....anyway, you apparently have trust in the Ottowa shop's work?....yet the car is now in Toronto?

Shank996TT

Sorry but I couldn't resist. Had to jump in here. Apex, Sorry to hear about your issue, but its not the first time, nor the second, nor the third.....<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000230" target="_blank">link to previous post</a>

Apex Late

GreggT,

With regards to the rake I'm not sure how the measurement of 1.9 is reached but I will inquire and post here later. I know that it is not an alignment term. However, it is an important measurement because it will greatly effect the way the car transfers weight. I will ask how it was measured and post back soon.

As for the installation and set-up. I went to a respected shop in Ottawa affiliated with the PCA club in my region. I had used them for more than a year with my 993TT. What I meant by "not rocket science" is that a knowledgable person can do a suspension installation and that the installation itself is quite straight forward. Mistakes with the parts themselves are difficult to make. That being said, it has been brought to my attention that the set-up that they put on my car was wrong (but a right one was not an option because of the limitations of the Roock product itself)and they should have identified this and not delivered the car to me.

The car was sent to Toronto in the end because there were issues with the car (a product of the suspension) that neither my dealer nor my Ottawa tuner could solve. I went with the shop in Toronto because of a strong recommendation from a friend that I have known through racing for many years. The shop (Fiorano) has a strong racing background with Porsche products. The car was not in there shop for more than 1 hour before the problem was identified and reported to me. I will now spend the winter months here in Canada correcting the problems instead of moving forward with some other projects that I had planned for the car. It is unfortunate that I had not heard of the Rennlist until AFTER I was a Roock customer.

It is interesting that with hundreds of great results no one has yet posted to tell me how much success that they are having with the Roock suspension.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Apex Late

Shank,

I had a chance to read your post with regards to your lawyers. Did anything come of that ? This guy really deserves to get a hard lesson from the courts.

cobra06

Good point, CJV. It seems that a relatively small number of us follow the web boards to get actual feed back about equipment and tuners. I think most just get the biased/filtered glossy ads, and hype from the providers. I will certainly spread the word, having been burned by several tuners and experts over the years, I fully research everything now, and do my own individual testing.