Vide0: BMW M6 vs. 911 Turbo (996)
10-20-2005, 02:41 PM
#1
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Vide0: BMW M6 vs. 911 Turbo (996)
10-20-2005, 03:50 PM
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Amen.........
As the owner of 5 BMW's over the past 20 years, I recently vowed I will not drive a car that is ugly from the front, rear, top, side, inside and tries to "take me down a new road that our current customers don't want to travel". There will be NO BMW's in my future until the mess that Bangle and his Dutch designer, van Hoodwink, is undone. I can't experience the "freude mit fahren" if the car is too damn ugly to even approach. Perhaps BMW is better at design car sickness bags that they are at cupholders.
Sorry, if my opinion on the subject is not clear.
Sorry, if my opinion on the subject is not clear.
10-20-2005, 03:51 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by Dr. T
..These guys started a huge pissing match over on 6speed that's still going on!Looks like they want to throw a gernade in here too.
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10-20-2005, 03:55 PM
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10-20-2005, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gustav
If yuo are generally interested in cars you should care. I think it was alot of fun, we also raced a Ruf Turbo R.
10-20-2005, 04:17 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
I feel like I have a foot in both "camps" on this issue. I have a very nice E46 M3 as my daily driver, and I must admit finding it very satisfying to smoke a few standard 996 Carerras at Lime Rock and at Pocono in that car.
There was a great mystique with the M Cars once upon a time, just like there was (albeit in a different way) with the AMG modified Mercedes (before they became an in-house brand). These new cars, however, are shaking the BMW fan base to it's core. Our BMWCCA monthly magazine is filled with hate mail and even hate articles from Roundel staff against all of the new designs. Regular, life-long BMW customers are abandoning the marque because they are straying too far away from the core values....non-nonsense performance in a sports sedan with clean, stoic, German designs.
These new cars are hideous. They are so ugly that non-car people remark how ugly they are. My wife stopped mid-sentence while driving with me the other day to say, "Oh my God! THAT'S a BMW?" My wife wouldn't notice a Ferrari if it hit her, but the ugliness of the 5'er shines right through! The 7'er, X3, Z4, and even new 3'er, unfortunately, suffer the same fate.
And I think enthusiasts could even get past some of the ugliness...but then you throw in active steering, take away true LSDs on most models in favor of traction and stability control, and even threaten the life of a beloved gearbox...a GOOD gearbox, no less, in favor of SMG. BMW is imposing their will on every facet of their product line. They have divided the fans into the long-term, hard core enthusiasts that are keeping their existing cars (like me), and the new owners, flovor-of-the-month club. Note to BMW...when Lexus rears up again with another world beater, there go your new customers.
A fast car, and no doubt this M6 or M5 is fast, is great, but it ain't what it used to be, folks. My M3 does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, and is deemed slow next to a 997S, a GT3, a 996TT, a Z06 (C5 or C6), a regular C6, a Mitsuibishi Lancer Evolution, a Subie STi, any one of three new Cadillacs, several AMG Mercedes and trucks...the list goes on! When you get out of the M6 and walk away, do you want to look over your shoulder to see how it looks? I always look at my M3...and my 911SC, for that matter.
Let the handful of new BMW fans cling to their dragstrip videos...the rest of the world, including other members of the BMW community at large, point a collective finger of mockery at them, and from every angle.
There was a great mystique with the M Cars once upon a time, just like there was (albeit in a different way) with the AMG modified Mercedes (before they became an in-house brand). These new cars, however, are shaking the BMW fan base to it's core. Our BMWCCA monthly magazine is filled with hate mail and even hate articles from Roundel staff against all of the new designs. Regular, life-long BMW customers are abandoning the marque because they are straying too far away from the core values....non-nonsense performance in a sports sedan with clean, stoic, German designs.
These new cars are hideous. They are so ugly that non-car people remark how ugly they are. My wife stopped mid-sentence while driving with me the other day to say, "Oh my God! THAT'S a BMW?" My wife wouldn't notice a Ferrari if it hit her, but the ugliness of the 5'er shines right through! The 7'er, X3, Z4, and even new 3'er, unfortunately, suffer the same fate.
And I think enthusiasts could even get past some of the ugliness...but then you throw in active steering, take away true LSDs on most models in favor of traction and stability control, and even threaten the life of a beloved gearbox...a GOOD gearbox, no less, in favor of SMG. BMW is imposing their will on every facet of their product line. They have divided the fans into the long-term, hard core enthusiasts that are keeping their existing cars (like me), and the new owners, flovor-of-the-month club. Note to BMW...when Lexus rears up again with another world beater, there go your new customers.
A fast car, and no doubt this M6 or M5 is fast, is great, but it ain't what it used to be, folks. My M3 does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, and is deemed slow next to a 997S, a GT3, a 996TT, a Z06 (C5 or C6), a regular C6, a Mitsuibishi Lancer Evolution, a Subie STi, any one of three new Cadillacs, several AMG Mercedes and trucks...the list goes on! When you get out of the M6 and walk away, do you want to look over your shoulder to see how it looks? I always look at my M3...and my 911SC, for that matter.
Let the handful of new BMW fans cling to their dragstrip videos...the rest of the world, including other members of the BMW community at large, point a collective finger of mockery at them, and from every angle.
10-20-2005, 04:23 PM
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Here is a film from the Porsche guys:
http://www.henkanonline.se/m6.wmv
I agree with you that the M6 is not the prettiest car around, but see the M5 in real life and I am sure you will like it. What is wrong with this Hartge M5:
I think it is lovely. I agree with you that BMW should offer a manual gearbox, and the will do that after listening to its consumers.
And hey, the BMW M5 on the Nürburgring is better than any other 4 dopor BMW there eve has been.
http://www.henkanonline.se/m6.wmv
I agree with you that the M6 is not the prettiest car around, but see the M5 in real life and I am sure you will like it. What is wrong with this Hartge M5:
I think it is lovely. I agree with you that BMW should offer a manual gearbox, and the will do that after listening to its consumers.
And hey, the BMW M5 on the Nürburgring is better than any other 4 dopor BMW there eve has been.
how about some real racing track time?? (which involves fast cornering..?
10-20-2005, 04:36 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Again, Gustav, no questioning the abilities of either the M6 or M5, or the M division, or BMW for that matter. The simple fact is that there are far too many detractors to the new designs, including the M5. I have seen several M5s, both at the NY Auto Show, and on the road (Woodcliff Lake is in NJ...we see our share). I'd take a 6 over a 5 any day of the week. The 5 is actually my least favorite of all of the new designs, even the 7 (I'm in a monority there). Being the mid-market mainstay, great-grandson of the wonderful E28, I find the 5 to be the most offensive of all of BMWs miscues.
I planned to move my M3 up to an M5 or an M6, but there is just no way until they clean house and deep-six Hooeydonk.
I planned to move my M3 up to an M5 or an M6, but there is just no way until they clean house and deep-six Hooeydonk.
10-20-2005, 04:37 PM
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Not as easy as getting this set up. Koenigsegg does not have their own track... Speaking oif track, Koenigsegg now is only 2 s behind Carrera GT on the ring:
Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records
On the 17th and 18th of October 2005, The Koenigsegg CCR conducted the thorough and crucial Sportauto Supertest. The article will be published in the spring of 2006.
However we have received permission to share some of the ground breaking data in advance.
The Supertest conducted by Sportauto cheif-editor Horst von Surma is considered a true benchmark of performance.
Even tough the conditions was far from ideal, with temperatures ranging down to 6 C, the Koenigsegg still managed to show class leading performance with a time of 7 minutes and 34 seconds around the Nürburgring Nordschleife, with comparatively cold tires, minimizing the grip level.
At the same time the CCR obtained the fastest ever recorded speed on the long Doetinger Hoehe straight, reaching the outstanding speed of 313 km/h.
Due to the cold weather, the tires did not reach full working temperature, which is equivalent to a loss of minimum 5 seconds per lap around the ring, compared to a well tempered day, according to the experts.
Given warmer conditions, we are now more confident than ever, that CCR will be the first production car under 7 minutes and 30 seconds.
All the acquired data and settings, such as wheel alignment, tire pressures etc, is available to any Koenigsegg customer. Utilizing this data, the CCR drivers can set up their KACS system to - "Ring Dominance", in order to obtain Nordschleife track day superiority.
Interesting data:
(Sportauto ref. - cold condition - CCR)
0-200 km/h: 9.6 Seconds New record!
36 m Slalom speed: 138 km/h New record!
110 m Slalom Speed: 158 km/h New record!
Hockenheim:
Laptime: 1.09.8 Seconds
Long straight end speed just before nord kurve: 220 km/h New record!
Nürburgring - Nordschleife:
Laptime: 7.34 Seconds
Long straight end speed - Doetinger Hoehe: 313 km/h New record!
Koenigsegg has now proven that it is the best allround performing supercar ever produced. Not only does it have class leading record breaking top speed, but also class leading aguility around a race track, combined with class leading suspension comfort.
As soon as spring is in the air, serving a more tempered climate - we will be back....... for more action around the Ring.
For reference data, please have a look at:
www.track-challenge.com
Christian v. Koenigsegg
Published: 10/19/2005
http://www.koenigsegg.se/news/articl...age=&type=news
Koenigsegg sets Supertest Records
On the 17th and 18th of October 2005, The Koenigsegg CCR conducted the thorough and crucial Sportauto Supertest. The article will be published in the spring of 2006.
However we have received permission to share some of the ground breaking data in advance.
The Supertest conducted by Sportauto cheif-editor Horst von Surma is considered a true benchmark of performance.
Even tough the conditions was far from ideal, with temperatures ranging down to 6 C, the Koenigsegg still managed to show class leading performance with a time of 7 minutes and 34 seconds around the Nürburgring Nordschleife, with comparatively cold tires, minimizing the grip level.
At the same time the CCR obtained the fastest ever recorded speed on the long Doetinger Hoehe straight, reaching the outstanding speed of 313 km/h.
Due to the cold weather, the tires did not reach full working temperature, which is equivalent to a loss of minimum 5 seconds per lap around the ring, compared to a well tempered day, according to the experts.
Given warmer conditions, we are now more confident than ever, that CCR will be the first production car under 7 minutes and 30 seconds.
All the acquired data and settings, such as wheel alignment, tire pressures etc, is available to any Koenigsegg customer. Utilizing this data, the CCR drivers can set up their KACS system to - "Ring Dominance", in order to obtain Nordschleife track day superiority.
Interesting data:
(Sportauto ref. - cold condition - CCR)
0-200 km/h: 9.6 Seconds New record!
36 m Slalom speed: 138 km/h New record!
110 m Slalom Speed: 158 km/h New record!
Hockenheim:
Laptime: 1.09.8 Seconds
Long straight end speed just before nord kurve: 220 km/h New record!
Nürburgring - Nordschleife:
Laptime: 7.34 Seconds
Long straight end speed - Doetinger Hoehe: 313 km/h New record!
Koenigsegg has now proven that it is the best allround performing supercar ever produced. Not only does it have class leading record breaking top speed, but also class leading aguility around a race track, combined with class leading suspension comfort.
As soon as spring is in the air, serving a more tempered climate - we will be back....... for more action around the Ring.
For reference data, please have a look at:
www.track-challenge.com
Christian v. Koenigsegg
Published: 10/19/2005
http://www.koenigsegg.se/news/articl...age=&type=news
10-20-2005, 04:53 PM
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I think the 5 Series is butt ugly! I LOVE the 3,6, and 7 though!! I'd have a new M^ in my garage in a second! I think 6 series is one of the best looking cars out right now!