Ultimate Motorwerks K24 build/testing process
09-25-2024, 01:02 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
You can make 1000hp on these cars and be OBD compliant. Maybe not in all 50 states, but you can make pretty much as many horses and torques as you want while retaining the cats and other factory emissions controls as long as the state you're in doesn't check for aftermarket tunes.
Yesterday, 10:42 AM
#78
Rennlist Member
What I mean is there is no consistency with the rules; Alberta does not require cats, BC stopped enforcing emissions when they killed AirCare, and all of these vehicles are legal to go into the states.
As the Cali guys are noting, visual inspections seem to be somewhat subjective and will get a pass/fail depending on the mood of the inspector.
Cobb got absolutely pummeled by the feds and had to sell, they couldn't afford the fine. SCT had similar problems in the diesel world, but you can still buy bully dog tuners in Canada that modify emissions equipment, or even delete it completely.
And with all this going on for us consumers, there are zero restrictions on airplanes, and limited restrictions on marine vessels, both industries produce immense amounts of carbon into the atmosphere.
All of this chaos is based on governance, and focusing on what looks good (going after the tuners) versus what should be done, going after marine and aerospace companies.
In Canada, you can buy a frame, new, from Kenworth, Peterbilt, Western Star, etc., and legally put a pre emissions motor in it...
Hypocrisy at its peak.
As the Cali guys are noting, visual inspections seem to be somewhat subjective and will get a pass/fail depending on the mood of the inspector.
Cobb got absolutely pummeled by the feds and had to sell, they couldn't afford the fine. SCT had similar problems in the diesel world, but you can still buy bully dog tuners in Canada that modify emissions equipment, or even delete it completely.
And with all this going on for us consumers, there are zero restrictions on airplanes, and limited restrictions on marine vessels, both industries produce immense amounts of carbon into the atmosphere.
All of this chaos is based on governance, and focusing on what looks good (going after the tuners) versus what should be done, going after marine and aerospace companies.
In Canada, you can buy a frame, new, from Kenworth, Peterbilt, Western Star, etc., and legally put a pre emissions motor in it...
Hypocrisy at its peak.
I'm not sure I understand your argument, that since there are other modes of transport that don't have cats (how would you add those to a turbine engine?) that we shouldn't have cats/emissions equipment on cars?
Yesterday, 11:25 AM
#79
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
American epa policy has impacted what is going on in Canada; Alberta, as noted, does not require cats, so they can legally be removed from the vehicle.
BC no longer enforces anything in an active manner.
Not really an argument as much as an observation; if everyone in North America is so hell bent on reducing emissions and policing cars after they are sold, then the rules would be universal and apply to everyone.
They do not.
As technology advances, political agendas pull us back, and a group of well funded individuals in both sides of the border and developing policies that, in my opinion, are focused on a relatively small group of individuals and not on the industries that cause most of pollution.
We have developed, and trademarked, some IP that could easily be introduced into the market on a large scale that would aid in reducing environmental loading on more than just ICE, yet, can we get any traction with the feds in Canada? Nope. We have made some in roads on a state level with the Washington Department of Transportation, yet, nothing like we could do on a national and international level.
Why is this?
Hypocrisy.
I'd be curious to know the pollution numbers of a modified car versus a cows discharge of methane, and then see that scaled against how many tuned cars there are, versus the entire cow population of north America.
BC no longer enforces anything in an active manner.
Not really an argument as much as an observation; if everyone in North America is so hell bent on reducing emissions and policing cars after they are sold, then the rules would be universal and apply to everyone.
They do not.
As technology advances, political agendas pull us back, and a group of well funded individuals in both sides of the border and developing policies that, in my opinion, are focused on a relatively small group of individuals and not on the industries that cause most of pollution.
We have developed, and trademarked, some IP that could easily be introduced into the market on a large scale that would aid in reducing environmental loading on more than just ICE, yet, can we get any traction with the feds in Canada? Nope. We have made some in roads on a state level with the Washington Department of Transportation, yet, nothing like we could do on a national and international level.
Why is this?
Hypocrisy.
I'd be curious to know the pollution numbers of a modified car versus a cows discharge of methane, and then see that scaled against how many tuned cars there are, versus the entire cow population of north America.
Yesterday, 02:27 PM
#80
Burning Brakes
Emissions are for betas! Real men BREATH NOXIOUS FUMES
Yesterday, 02:30 PM
#81
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This topic is immensely frustrating.
Yesterday, 06:48 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
Technically since it's Federally mandated it is universally enforced. If you live in a state that doesn't do testing and you personally decide to remove the emissions equipment, what you've done is illegal. Just because there isn't a testing process in place to catch that doesn't make the act any more legal. I guess I just don't see the point in deleting cats on a street car. Is the small HP gain (and sometimes no gain, I've tested this on a dyno) worth it? Will it really matter if you arrive at the grocery store 0.02 seconds sooner? On a race car I can see it, you don't want to melt down a very expensive car part and/or you're looking for every last HP you can get. On a street car? Uhh.....
Yesterday, 06:51 PM
#83
Burning Brakes
Technically since it's Federally mandated it is universally enforced. If you live in a state that doesn't do testing and you personally decide to remove the emissions equipment, what you've done is illegal. Just because there isn't a testing process in place to catch that doesn't make the act any more legal. I guess I just don't see the point in deleting cats on a street car. Is the small HP gain (and sometimes no gain, I've tested this on a dyno) worth it? Will it really matter if you arrive at the grocery store 0.02 seconds sooner? On a race car I can see it, you don't want to melt down a very expensive car part and/or you're looking for every last HP you can get. On a street car? Uhh.....
I agree though. Unless youre making big HP or its a legit race car..a decent set of high flow cats should suffice.
Yesterday, 08:04 PM
#84
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Technically since it's Federally mandated it is universally enforced. If you live in a state that doesn't do testing and you personally decide to remove the emissions equipment, what you've done is illegal. Just because there isn't a testing process in place to catch that doesn't make the act any more legal. I guess I just don't see the point in deleting cats on a street car. Is the small HP gain (and sometimes no gain, I've tested this on a dyno) worth it? Will it really matter if you arrive at the grocery store 0.02 seconds sooner? On a race car I can see it, you don't want to melt down a very expensive car part and/or you're looking for every last HP you can get. On a street car? Uhh.....
Registration in Montana is an example of this.
Last edited by 2fcknfst; Yesterday at 08:10 PM.
Yesterday, 09:52 PM
#85
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Montana registrations are about saving on sales tax. It has nothing to do with EPA rules which are nationwide.
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Yesterday, 10:30 PM
#86
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-honda-s2000-98/
Case in point - registered in Montana, but living in California.
I have friends there who have non compliance vehicles and they report there is zero enforcement.
Again, the point is, if you want to enforce such draconian rules, do so in a uniform and all encompassing manner - don't **** pick fellas for not having a stamp on a turbo, base the restrictions on what the vehicle emits as emissions, and if it exceeds the emissions as reported to the EPA when it was certified, great, then they can whine about it
If it doesn't, leave them alone, because technically, it isn't in default, irrespective of what turbos, exhaust and/or injectors it's running.