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my UMW 996 compared to 991.2 turbo S
Hello folks,
For those wondering/considering upgrading to a 991, I thought I would give my perspective. When I was considering buying a 991 already owning and enjoying my 996 modified with Kevin's hybrid K-16 turbos and tune, with PSS 10 shocks,I wondered if the driving experience was worth the price delta? Answer yes, and no. The 991 is a vastly refined car compared to the 996. It is extremely planted and raises the cornering limit to insane levels. The PDK transmission is awesome. I rarely use the paddles as the auto is very intuitive and works very well. The car feels bigger and extremely stable at all speeds. The 996 with mods is much more demanding/engaging to drive. You feel the undulations in the road surface, etc. Manual shifting is obviously more engaging and heel to toe is part of the joy of driving it. Power...Well my son and I went for a spirited drive last Saturday. We took turns driving both cars on deserted country curvy roads mixed with a little freeway time. Here is a quote from my son that shows how good and fun the 996 is. "It's pretty bad when you don't want to get out of this car and get into the $200k car!" The 996 with Kevin's above stated hardware and software out pulls the stock 991.2 turbo S. Did I just type that out loud? :) Other than using launch control the 996 out pulled it from rolling in 3'rd or 4th gear pulls. So, from a power standpoint, for those that haven't done so, get Kevin's stage 2 or 2 B UMW mods...you will only wish you did sooner. So...is the 991 worth it? YES! Are you missing out in all the fun with your 996? A very big NO! I plan to keep both cars as they are both great autos...in their own ways. The technology upgrades in the 991 are awesome; touch screen, stereo, Bluetooth, and PDK. If you have the means get a 991, but don't put the 996 out to pasture...It has good legs and likes to run with the new kid on the block. Enjoy and drive safely and responsibly.... (PS, I don't want to make the same mistake twice having sold a very nice 993 tt to get the 996...of course this before the 993 market hit the stratosphere.) |
Thanks. Nice review. With your mods, what kind of power do you think the 996 is putting out?
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I believe 550 ish hp and 500 tq, Kevin could verify. The pulls compared to the stock 991.2 S would vindicate the HP?TQ numbers!
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Thanks for the review Lance well described!
I have yet to uncover my 02TT and change the oil. After I get it attended to I will contact you and meet up. |
I agree with most of your comments... I recently spent some time in a 991 Turbo I was considering. The biggest take-away i had was how easy it was to drive the 991 turbo very, very quickly... But how rewarding it was to drive the 996 Turbo very, very quickly.
And on the power side, I believe it wouldn't take all that much for Kevin or other top tuner. to bring the 991Turbo S, with stock turbos and other hardware, to power levels that would easily exceed your current tuned 996. |
I have a 996 and pretty much full access to a 991.2s; in which I have banked more than a few miles...
The 991 is far and away the fastest production car I have ever driven, and to add to pfbz's comments, you can get in it and drive it very, very quickly. With that being said, and if I had to choose between the two, I would go with the 996 for a couple of reasons - 1) You can't beat the feeling of nailing the perfect up/down shift, and 2) the analogue feel of the 996 is superior to the 991. Do not get me wrong, when the Boss's 991 comes up for sale, I will most likely buy it because it will give me a reason to hone the focus the mission of the 996, and allow me to click of man miles in the 991 without rattling my teeth loose. In the end, if you have the money, get both. |
I took the cost effective solution to buying a 991 turbo that still keeps my 996t feeling fast, a 991.1S.
Initially I was looking at some higher mile 991tt for ~$100k but then drove a PDK .1s from local CL ad loaded with everything but PCCBs and bought it for half as much. The NA sound at full tilt is great and I had forgotten how much I missed high revving NA motors, having V-8 and turbo cars over the past few years. The 991 and 996 are two completely different animals and having one auto/paddle with lots of mod tech and comfort to DD is a great combo with a track ready 6t. All that said, when I find the right newer turbo, the S will be gone:) no replacement for the torque... |
I owned a 991.1 Turbo S (I know, not a 991.2) and it just did not excite me the way my current 996 with stock hp does where I miss driving it the moment I park it. The 991 on track was downright scary because you couldn't tell or feel what the hell it was doing. For example, the combination of RAS, PDK, electric steering, PASM, PDDC, you get the point, just takes away so much from the driving sensations. Sure it was fast and and an amazing machine but it just wasn't all that fun for me. I constantly debate whether to add a tune to my 996 but I keep realizing that much if what I love about driving it is having to work it a little more, from a relative perspective anyway. But yes, it pains me just knowing the potential is easily accessible and some days I feel like I'm wasting that ability!
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A different combo most wont go for but worth a look- I have a ByDesign car and a new Tesla Model3P- this is a great combo and mucthenTesla is soooo much quicker than anything I’ve ever driven before. My 6TT is track setup and hope to get a few DE days, but WOW + the Resla is incredible. My 7.2TT was an incredible build, but prefer the combo of old and new.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...1b1d768db.jpeg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...e98af21a1.jpeg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b13084dea.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...bafd3ddb8.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...31cbcb949.jpeg |
Don't take this the wrong way, as I broke up your post into (what I feel) is easier to read. I just did this for others (like me) who sometimes skip posts because it will be too difficult to read (due to formatting).
I felt it was useful enough to take the time to do this! Awesome feedback on both cars, I'm curious if you feel the 991 is too High-Class-Touring as opposed to the 996? To me, it seems with the 991, the Turbo went an Executive+Sporty route... and left the real sport feel to the GT3, which has tamed down as well from the 996 GT3 version as well.. Now thinking about it, ever since they came out with RS street versions, each variant below became more tame... Hello folks. For those wondering/considering upgrading to a 991, I thought I would give my perspective. When I was considering buying a 991 already owning and enjoying my 996 modified with Kevin's hybrid K-16 turbos and tune, with PSS 10 shocks,I wondered if the driving experience was worth the price delta? Answer yes, and no. The 991 is a vastly refined car compared to the 996. It is extremely planted and raises the cornering limit to insane levels. The PDK transmission is awesome. I rarely use the paddles as the auto is very intuitive and works very well. The car feels bigger and extremely stable at all speeds. The 996 with mods is much more demanding/engaging to drive. You feel the undulations in the road surface, etc. Manual shifting is obviously more engaging and heel to toe is part of the joy of driving it. Power...Well my son and I went for a spirited drive last Saturday. We took turns driving both cars on deserted country curvy roads mixed with a little freeway time. Here is a quote from my son that shows how good and fun the 996 is. "It's pretty bad when you don't want to get out of this car and get into the $200k car!" The 996 with Kevin's above stated hardware and software out pulls the stock 991.2 turbo S. Did I just type that out loud? https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif Other than using launch control the 996 out pulled it from rolling in 3'rd or 4th gear pulls. So, from a power standpoint, for those that haven't done so, get Kevin's stage 2 or 2 B UMW mods...you will only wish you did sooner. So...is the 991 worth it? YES! Are you missing out in all the fun with your 996? A very big NO! I plan to keep both cars as they are both great autos...in their own ways. The technology upgrades in the 991 are awesome; touch screen, stereo, bluetooth, and PDK. If you have the means get a 991, but don't put the 996 out to pasture...It has good legs and likes to run with the new kid on the block. Enjoy and drive safely and responsibly.... (PS, I don't want to make the same mistake twice having sold a very nice 993 tt to get the 996...of course this before the 993 market hit the stratosphere.) |
Nice write-up, appreciate it.
To each their own, but to me, the cockpit of the 991 is awful, especially with that huge divider/console atrocity. It's like getting into every luxury car, putting it in D and off you go with no "driving" involved. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car, just not what I want from a 911. I will stick with my 996. Others will disagree, which is fine. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3be5d704ff.jpg |
Originally Posted by ipman
(Post 15903758)
To each their own, but to me, the cockpit of the 991 is awful, especially with that huge divider/console atrocity. It's like getting into every luxury car, putting it in D and off you go with no "driving" involved. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car, just not what I want from a 911. I will stick with my 996. Others will disagree, which is fine.
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Originally Posted by NoogaSparrow
(Post 15902475)
Don't take this the wrong way, as I broke up your post into (what I feel) is easier to read.
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i realize money isn't a factor for anyone here..
but if a new '19 991.2 TT is $215k +/- and a low mileage '18 TT is maybe 180k +/- ? ( is the '17 tt S a 991.2 or 991.1 i cant remember .. but can be found for $160k under 10 k miles +/- ). is the $ delta worth btw $110K and $150k between those and a 996 turbo? of course, if money isn't a factor. i've always found each 911 to be demonstrably "better" in terms of enjoyment, power and "drivability". it pains me to think i may never again drive off with a "new" one again, as i have in the past. but i still question whether the difference is worth 150/170 grand btw the two MY iterations. but then again, "new" is newer. |
Originally Posted by "02996ttx50
(Post 15903904)
is the $ delta worth btw $110K and $150k between those and a 996 turbo?
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