Can't get a break...
11-26-2017, 02:43 PM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Can't get a break...
Now the alternator...
First image: From a trip dated: 17/11/22 a view of my Turbo's battery voltage trace. You can see the voltage starts out near 13.5V and drops a bit over time as the battery gets topped up:
Second image: A trip dated 17/11/25 you can see the voltage starts out ok but takes a pretty sharp drop at the end. I'm thinking no way the voltage at the battery should drop below 12.7V.
Third image: The last image from a 2nd trip later on the 25th. With the engine/alternator/voltage regulator "hot" you can see the voltage level appears quite low and gets lower. I drove the car a mile or so from the restaurant to the house and parked it. I hope the engine starts Monday and I can drive the car less than a mile to the dealer to have this dealt with.
Some time ago I spoke with a tech about a suspected issue with my Boxster's starter and he said if the behavior got worse (it got better, the noise went away) I could bring the car in and the starter could be removed and sent out to a local shop to be rebuilt. The tech said this shop also does alternators. So that's probably what I'll have done, have the Turbo's alternator rebuilt.
First time with any car I've ever had an alternator problem. 'course, except for the Boxster the Turbo has more miles on it than any other car I've ever owned. The cars that I have put close to 160K miles on were my '96 Mustang GT (approx. 140K miles) and my '02 VW Golf TDi (also approx. 140K miles).
Now that I think about it the VW did have an alternator problem. The pulley failed and the engine lost its V-belt about 15 miles outside of Albuquerque. LImped into town and after the Christmas holiday got the car into the VW dealer and had a new alternator installed along with a new V-belt, of course.
Anyhow, Monday the Turbo goes back in for this low voltage problem.
First image: From a trip dated: 17/11/22 a view of my Turbo's battery voltage trace. You can see the voltage starts out near 13.5V and drops a bit over time as the battery gets topped up:
Second image: A trip dated 17/11/25 you can see the voltage starts out ok but takes a pretty sharp drop at the end. I'm thinking no way the voltage at the battery should drop below 12.7V.
Third image: The last image from a 2nd trip later on the 25th. With the engine/alternator/voltage regulator "hot" you can see the voltage level appears quite low and gets lower. I drove the car a mile or so from the restaurant to the house and parked it. I hope the engine starts Monday and I can drive the car less than a mile to the dealer to have this dealt with.
Some time ago I spoke with a tech about a suspected issue with my Boxster's starter and he said if the behavior got worse (it got better, the noise went away) I could bring the car in and the starter could be removed and sent out to a local shop to be rebuilt. The tech said this shop also does alternators. So that's probably what I'll have done, have the Turbo's alternator rebuilt.
First time with any car I've ever had an alternator problem. 'course, except for the Boxster the Turbo has more miles on it than any other car I've ever owned. The cars that I have put close to 160K miles on were my '96 Mustang GT (approx. 140K miles) and my '02 VW Golf TDi (also approx. 140K miles).
Now that I think about it the VW did have an alternator problem. The pulley failed and the engine lost its V-belt about 15 miles outside of Albuquerque. LImped into town and after the Christmas holiday got the car into the VW dealer and had a new alternator installed along with a new V-belt, of course.
Anyhow, Monday the Turbo goes back in for this low voltage problem.
11-26-2017, 04:44 PM
#2
Drifting
You can purchase a new Bosch alternator for under $300 shipped with a lifetime guarantee. Changing the alternator is pretty easy, 1-1.5 hours. While you are replacing the alternator, check pulleys and idler, and replace if necessary. All three cost about $325..
11-26-2017, 05:09 PM
#3
Addict
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Macster, rarely do these alternators lose bearings. The regulator and brush pack is very simple to replace! I can change one out in 20 to 30 minutes. The brushes wear and all the carbon gets between the commutator.. Decarbon and polish the copper and install the new Bosch regulator.. New Bosch regulators that come with brush packs are less than $100
The original Bosch Porsche alternators are built better vs the new Bosch aftermarket units.. If you can rebuild the factory one you will have a nice unit to go another 150K miles.
Again, the carbon is arching and the alternator is losing it's efficiency. And yes, one can purchase just the brushes> I would just replace the entire regulator assy.
The original Bosch Porsche alternators are built better vs the new Bosch aftermarket units.. If you can rebuild the factory one you will have a nice unit to go another 150K miles.
Again, the carbon is arching and the alternator is losing it's efficiency. And yes, one can purchase just the brushes> I would just replace the entire regulator assy.
11-26-2017, 05:50 PM
#4
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Buck up Macster you have put many miles on your Porsches. Stuff is going to break.
Remenber it is not the years, it is the milage.
Remenber it is not the years, it is the milage.
11-26-2017, 10:55 PM
#5
Race Car
+1 what Kevin said. Remove the alternator, replace the regulator and put it all back in. In the last 20 or so years, I think I have replaced 7 or 8 regulators on various of my cars (did the 996TT earlier this year). Never once was the actual alternator a problem. I'm sure there's an alternator rebuilder somewhere that must be laughing their a** off at all the perfectly good alternators they are receiving that need just a new regulator. The metal brushes on the regulator are wear parts and are guaranteed to fail after enough pulley rotations. The alternator is specifically designed to have this wear part easily replaceable. It's almost like rebuilding your brake calipers when all you need are new pads.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...l#post14269190
Dan
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turb...l#post14269190
Dan
11-27-2017, 12:09 PM
#6
Race Director
Thread Starter
Macster, rarely do these alternators lose bearings. The regulator and brush pack is very simple to replace! I can change one out in 20 to 30 minutes. The brushes wear and all the carbon gets between the commutator.. Decarbon and polish the copper and install the new Bosch regulator.. New Bosch regulators that come with brush packs are less than $100
The original Bosch Porsche alternators are built better vs the new Bosch aftermarket units.. If you can rebuild the factory one you will have a nice unit to go another 150K miles.
Again, the carbon is arching and the alternator is losing it's efficiency. And yes, one can purchase just the brushes> I would just replace the entire regulator assy.
The original Bosch Porsche alternators are built better vs the new Bosch aftermarket units.. If you can rebuild the factory one you will have a nice unit to go another 150K miles.
Again, the carbon is arching and the alternator is losing it's efficiency. And yes, one can purchase just the brushes> I would just replace the entire regulator assy.
I have no place to work on the car.
At 9am I'll drive my Boxster over with some printouts of the voltage plots over the last few trips and run this by the tech. I'll ask him what are my options. A full rebuild is probably overkill.
Where do you get your 996 Turbo alternator regulator and brush pack?
11-27-2017, 12:13 PM
#7
Race Director
Thread Starter
Still more stuff has "broken" on the Turbo in 160K miles than has broken on the Boxster in almost double that number of miles. And the stuff that has broken on both cars has broken at few miles on the Turbo than the Boxster.
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11-27-2017, 03:52 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Someone loan Macster their garage spot and help this guy not getting bent over again. We don't always see eye to eye with things in the past, but I don't like seeing anyone get taken advantage of.
11-27-2017, 05:07 PM
#9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8hyor2TZik
This link shows you how to replace the voltage regulator on a N/A 996. Should be the same for turbo. The other component that could fail is the diode bridge rectifier, however I feel that is unlikely. Probably brushes are intermittently lifting off of the slip rings since they are likely worn.
I replaced 2 regulators on my VW TDI over 240,000 miles.
Good luck.
John
This link shows you how to replace the voltage regulator on a N/A 996. Should be the same for turbo. The other component that could fail is the diode bridge rectifier, however I feel that is unlikely. Probably brushes are intermittently lifting off of the slip rings since they are likely worn.
I replaced 2 regulators on my VW TDI over 240,000 miles.
Good luck.
John
11-27-2017, 09:58 PM
#10
Race Director
Thread Starter
Update on the alternator...
Engine fired right up and I drove it the mile+ to the dealer. In just that time the voltage level was dropping from under 14V to close to 13V.
Tech reviewed the graphs.
Said the alternator could be replaced. He said the dealer used WorldPac which I guess sells the equivalent of the factory alternator.
Parts department quoted me $533.89 for a WorldPac alternator vs. $558.90 for a "Porsche" alternator which is a factory re-manufactured Porsche alternator.
Since I have decided to replace the alternator I asked the parts department manager to order the one he believes to be the best. The tech said both are equally good. When customers want a new alternator -- but don't want to pay for a new Porsche alternator they use WorldPac. When a customer wants a "Porsche" alternator albeit a re-manufactured one, the Porsche alternator is used. The difference in price of $25 makes no difference to me.
The tech said to replace just the voltage regulator he'd have to work up a quote. The tech said really the pulley end bearing should be replaced while the alternator was out and maybe the other bearing too so instead of having him just replace the voltage regulator I could have him remove the alternator and then I could take it to a place in town that specializes in rebuilding these units and have a new voltage regulator installed along with new bearings, have the slip rings or whatever replaced or at least freshened up some and well just have the thing rebuilt.
What I'll do is get the old alternator back. I'll check for any play in the bearings. If none I'll order or buy locally from the Audi dealer a new voltage regulator for it and install it myself and have the alternator as a back up. Or if the opportunity presented itself just sell it as a used alternator but with a new voltage regulator fitted. If there is play or signs the alternator is worn I'll have it rebuilt by the place in town recommended by the Porsche tech then just put the rebuilt unit in the new unit's box and keep it as as a spare/back up or like above if the opportunity presented itself just sell it as a rebuilt unit, which it would be..
BTW, I did think about just replacing the voltage regulator myself. There are a number of issues/obstacles in my way. One is I have no lighting where I park the car. Well, there is some light but not enough to work on the car by. And I have no where to plug in a work light. Besides this would attract attention and likely get me reported to management for working on my car. Even I waited until Saturday/Sunday to work on the car during daylight the manager walks around at least on Saturday and she'd spot me. There is the problem of where to store the parts, like the air box. I'd have to carry these over a hundred feet from where I park my Turbo to my apartment, which is already full of my deceased parents stuff, trust files and such, that I have to retain for I don't know how long. I would probably have to disconnect the battery and then leave the car unlocked and it is parked outside day and night. While I leave nothing of value in the car someone could still decide to pry the radio or something else out of the dash or out of the car. Heck the seats are worth something along with the headlights. Taillight assemblies likewise quite valuable. I'd hate to save a few hundred dollars replacing just the voltage regulator vs. the alternator only to have to have the car repaired from damage some thief or vandal inflicted on the car.
Last but not least I'm not sure I could do the work to get to the alternator to remove it to replace the voltage regulator. Wrenching is not the problem. But dealing with clips/connectors is. Just a few weeks back I had trouble replacing the MAF in my Boxster. While I was able to gain access to the MAF even remove it from the manifold I was unable to undo the electrical harness connector. Since I've had "trigger" finger surgery on both thumbs while I have regained use of my thumbs my hand strength is down. I was at work and I had to ask a co-worker to undo the clip of the harness electrical connector and even he struggled with it a bit.
There is no one where I live that can help me. I live in a 55+ community and people here do not work on their cars. Heck I'm probably the most physically active resident I think what with my daily walking/jogging. A number of residents need help unloading their cars, need their bags carried for them, etc.
The cost to replace the alternator is not prohibitive. Actually as I touched upon above the hardware cost is less than I thought it would be and the tech will give me a break on the time/labor I'm sure. He is going to replace the air filter while he is there and the belt, too. I have to pay for the parts but the labor will be included.
Tech reviewed the graphs.
Said the alternator could be replaced. He said the dealer used WorldPac which I guess sells the equivalent of the factory alternator.
Parts department quoted me $533.89 for a WorldPac alternator vs. $558.90 for a "Porsche" alternator which is a factory re-manufactured Porsche alternator.
Since I have decided to replace the alternator I asked the parts department manager to order the one he believes to be the best. The tech said both are equally good. When customers want a new alternator -- but don't want to pay for a new Porsche alternator they use WorldPac. When a customer wants a "Porsche" alternator albeit a re-manufactured one, the Porsche alternator is used. The difference in price of $25 makes no difference to me.
The tech said to replace just the voltage regulator he'd have to work up a quote. The tech said really the pulley end bearing should be replaced while the alternator was out and maybe the other bearing too so instead of having him just replace the voltage regulator I could have him remove the alternator and then I could take it to a place in town that specializes in rebuilding these units and have a new voltage regulator installed along with new bearings, have the slip rings or whatever replaced or at least freshened up some and well just have the thing rebuilt.
What I'll do is get the old alternator back. I'll check for any play in the bearings. If none I'll order or buy locally from the Audi dealer a new voltage regulator for it and install it myself and have the alternator as a back up. Or if the opportunity presented itself just sell it as a used alternator but with a new voltage regulator fitted. If there is play or signs the alternator is worn I'll have it rebuilt by the place in town recommended by the Porsche tech then just put the rebuilt unit in the new unit's box and keep it as as a spare/back up or like above if the opportunity presented itself just sell it as a rebuilt unit, which it would be..
BTW, I did think about just replacing the voltage regulator myself. There are a number of issues/obstacles in my way. One is I have no lighting where I park the car. Well, there is some light but not enough to work on the car by. And I have no where to plug in a work light. Besides this would attract attention and likely get me reported to management for working on my car. Even I waited until Saturday/Sunday to work on the car during daylight the manager walks around at least on Saturday and she'd spot me. There is the problem of where to store the parts, like the air box. I'd have to carry these over a hundred feet from where I park my Turbo to my apartment, which is already full of my deceased parents stuff, trust files and such, that I have to retain for I don't know how long. I would probably have to disconnect the battery and then leave the car unlocked and it is parked outside day and night. While I leave nothing of value in the car someone could still decide to pry the radio or something else out of the dash or out of the car. Heck the seats are worth something along with the headlights. Taillight assemblies likewise quite valuable. I'd hate to save a few hundred dollars replacing just the voltage regulator vs. the alternator only to have to have the car repaired from damage some thief or vandal inflicted on the car.
Last but not least I'm not sure I could do the work to get to the alternator to remove it to replace the voltage regulator. Wrenching is not the problem. But dealing with clips/connectors is. Just a few weeks back I had trouble replacing the MAF in my Boxster. While I was able to gain access to the MAF even remove it from the manifold I was unable to undo the electrical harness connector. Since I've had "trigger" finger surgery on both thumbs while I have regained use of my thumbs my hand strength is down. I was at work and I had to ask a co-worker to undo the clip of the harness electrical connector and even he struggled with it a bit.
There is no one where I live that can help me. I live in a 55+ community and people here do not work on their cars. Heck I'm probably the most physically active resident I think what with my daily walking/jogging. A number of residents need help unloading their cars, need their bags carried for them, etc.
The cost to replace the alternator is not prohibitive. Actually as I touched upon above the hardware cost is less than I thought it would be and the tech will give me a break on the time/labor I'm sure. He is going to replace the air filter while he is there and the belt, too. I have to pay for the parts but the labor will be included.
11-28-2017, 05:42 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
He posted a picture of his garage, no chance he's doing any work on his own car. I am becoming a little bitch some days when it comes to car work for what it's worth. However he could have followed my fuel pump diy and certainly knows how to search.
11-28-2017, 08:24 PM
#14
