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I think my car has a short from the wire that goes to E6 fuse. I drive around without the fuse in. Once at gas station with car off, put E6 7.5 fuse in and it fuels up fine. Pull fuse and drive away. Lame $$$ fix.
Have you guys tried leaving the car outside for a while with the gas cap open?
Curious, what would this accomplish? I know the old VW's would give you issues if you forgot to put the gas cap on and ran the car. Similar thing here?
Man I wish I could solve all of your fuel fill issues. I have solved so many over the years.
As these cars get older I am seeing more and more charcoal canister issues where they are Getting full and plugged up.
Joe I remember talking to you about yours a while back. I think you may be right and have a short somewhere.
Bottom line with fuel fill up is this. The tank is full of air fuel vapor when empty. The fuel fills the tank and the air vapor has to go somewhere. EPA says this is an emission and needs to be contained, thus the ORVR system.
Components that are involved in this in the order of flow
Filler neck
Neck flap switch
Fuel tank
Roll over valve
ORVR valve
Charcoal canister
Shut off valve
Fresh air valve.
Somewhere I have a diagram from training back in 2000 for this system that really helps diagnosis. I'm not sure who has it but it's the best and easiest way to visualize.
Another thing for diagnosing these no fill symptoms is to take the car apart a little as needed and one by one disconnect each component in reverse. Eventually the vehicle will fill with fuel and one of those components is the culprit.
I should also add that I have seen 2 roll over valves stuck in the gas tanks causing the issue.
Thanks for the post. You gave me an idea. You know, since I can trigger the problem with a gas can and funnel I am going to go to town disconnecting stuff but by bit. Binary search. Disconnect, fill, observe, repeat.
Man I wish I could solve all of your fuel fill issues. I have solved so many over the years.
As these cars get older I am seeing more and more charcoal canister issues where they are Getting full and plugged up.
Joe I remember talking to you about yours a while back. I think you may be right and have a short somewhere.
Bottom line with fuel fill up is this. The tank is full of air fuel vapor when empty. The fuel fills the tank and the air vapor has to go somewhere. EPA says this is an emission and needs to be contained, thus the ORVR system.
Components that are involved in this in the order of flow
Filler neck
Neck flap switch
Fuel tank
Roll over valve
ORVR valve
Charcoal canister
Shut off valve
Fresh air valve.
Somewhere I have a diagram from training back in 2000 for this system that really helps diagnosis. I'm not sure who has it but it's the best and easiest way to visualize.
Another thing for diagnosing these no fill symptoms is to take the car apart a little as needed and one by one disconnect each component in reverse. Eventually the vehicle will fill with fuel and one of those components is the culprit.
I should also add that I have seen 2 roll over valves stuck in the gas tanks causing the issue.
Thanks Charles for your contributions on RL. We all appreciate your input even though you must be super busy with exhaust building.
Thanks again.
Joe
Is it not possible to delete this ORVR system and replace with RoW standard solution ?
Attached is the an ORVR overview with the different components
That diagram is what I use to diagnose ORVR fueling issues.
Yes it is possible to convert away from ORVR. You have to take the fuel tank top vent hose and either vent it through the charcoal canister and then out the fuel neck switch or through the fresh air valve.
Or you can buy every part and convert.
If you did this then I would swap and install the 90L fuel tank as well. I could do it if I had the car at my shop.
I disconnected all the lines to the charcoal canister to divide the circuit in roughly 1/2. I then filled it up via can/funnel and failure still present.
This leads me to believe the problem is the fuel level limiting valve or ORVR. So I am focusing on that next.
I tested the ORVR valve by placing my finger in the fuel filler neck, and placing my other hand on the valve near the back of the headlight. When I actuate the door I can feel and hear a valve in the ORVR assembly actuate. I am thinking it's ok.
Now to try the fuel level limiting valve. Does anyone know if it's part #21 in the PET below? There isn't a text description for it.
The fuel level limiting valve appears to be a PIA to access. I can't feel it actuating, but I am not sure I would. I do t have any ideas how to change this out without dropping the fuel tank. I can't get to the connector to test for 12v either.
So the trick to getting the fuel level limiting valve out is to remove the black access panel over the fuel tank, the battery, and tray, then snip the foam out around the valve with a long pair of scissors, take a break and drink a beer, then test the valve with your bench power supply. It doesn't actuate when 12v is applied. I believe it's dead. I didn't check the wiring because it's hard to when the battery is out . Ordering new part 996 605 203 01 from pelican and we will see!
04-21-2016, 07:17 PM
. Ordering new part 996 605 203 01 from pelican and we will see!
