Another coolant line discussion
 

Just had my coolant lines welded. During disassembly, 2 were not tight at the glued junctions. Whew!

Sounds like you did it at the right time.

Which ones were coming loose?

Do the fittings need to come out and be cleaned, then re-insert and weld.. or one can just get the engine out and then clean from the outside and weld? Just curious..

Didn't get that info. It was from the welder who had the parts. He did a great job...sorry that they are so hidden.

Because of the epoxy residue, the parts had to be disassembled, cleaned, and then welded.

Chuck is right, you have to disassemble first and clean the glue. It's really a small effort in the grand scheme of things. There is no way you can do this repair with the pipes still attached to the engine.

Is it necessary to drop the engnie to do this?

Absolutely Pete. A lot of disassembly needs to take place to get at all the fittings.

+1 to what Chuck and Serge mentioned re: cleaning

There are 8 fittings that need to be repaired.

Thanks for the info.. !

Chuck has your shop done nething to prevent the hoses from popping out? Seems like it can be the hose or the press fittings that let's go. Mike

The hose is clamped to a thin aluminum pipe that is glued to the cast aluminum. The hose and clamps were fine. Two of the 8 glued fittings were loose. That seems to be what so many people have reported as the site of failure, and that is why I did this PM.

Timely post. I dropped the car off at Conway's last week to take care of this issue. I'm heading down to VIR and figured if I drive 12-14 hours to get there, sure as heck if one of the fittings is going to go it's going to go there.

Got a call from Ken on Monday, he said one of the fitting was very loose. All it took was an easy twist, like pulling the cap off a bic pen to pull the nipple from the casting.

A couple of pics. First shows the fitting was already out of the casting about 1/4 of an inch. The second shows the fitting with the old hardened adhesive.

The third shows the work some mice did before I got the car.

Whew....good catch! A few weeks ago, a GT3 let go at Mid Ohio and caused carnage behind him. I can't believe there is no class action suit regarding this. There are articles in Pano and Excellence, many threads here, etc.

The more i read about this PM, the more i am facing reality that I am going to have to perform this on my car soon. I am setting the car up over the winter for some track time and as much as I want to spend money on other goodies. I think i should spend it here first....... My only problem is I live in Louisiana where, to my knowledge, there are no Porsche shops familiar with this type of repair. I am in the Houston area alot, perhaps I can find a recommended shop in that area. Any recommendations concerning a shop that can perform the welded coolant fitting repair in the gulf south???? If i can't find a shop relatively local i guess i will have to travel a bit.

I used the search function but didnt find anything in my area......

Thanks for any and all info you guys and gals can share....

Don't have any personal experience, but RAC in Dallas (Carrollton) might be worth checking into. There is a place near Atlanta, and another in Fla that have been mentioned in previous posts. I know these are not so close, but might be better than what you can find closer.

Thanks Chuck. I have heard of RAC and have heard good things about them. They are roughly a 5 1/2 hour drive from my home. Not next door but if they are the only game in town, so be it. I will have to give them a call to see if they can perform the repair, or more importantly, have they ever performed that specific repair before, than ask the big question. How much???? The research continues....

Were these the fittings on top of the engine? One shop I called
recently said the top fittings were the most common to come loose and that I could get those welded in without dropping the engine.

Do a search to see all of the glued fittings. They have been pretty well documented in previous posts. Apparently, shop rates vary pretty much in different parts of the country, but the rates for the repair seem to go from $1500-$2200 from indie shops, and more from dealerships.

Sorry, I was only trying to ask whether the fitting that was already coming off was on top of the engine.

From what I've read so far it is mostly from fittings on top, in which case the solution my shop proposed seems to be a good one.

pm sent

If u don't plan to do address what PAG has ignored please run water and water water in place of coolant. I don't want track buddies spin behind me or neone else. Mike

Invariably the one that fails is going to be the one, or one of the ones, that you choose not to do.

Fwiw I had mine done last year on a 4k mile .1 RS and my tech added 2 seconds of heat to the manifold that the fittings go into and the fittings popped out easily - not all of them mind you, but a couple of them.

I think this is a mandatory cost of ownership - its not if, it's when.

Our 6's are getting old and the 7.1's are not that far behind. Does someone have to DIE to get this recalled!!!! Mike

Was this Audion19s?

Slightly OT John, but are you attending the Carolinas's event in a couple weeks?

[QUOTE=SH || NC;8995710]Was this Audion19s?

It was a black one, not sure. Guy had a sweet custom tow hitch that he pulled his track wheels with. He fabricated it himself.......

OK; that wasn't him; whew.... I mean it sucks, nonetheless....

+1 That's why I had mine done before anything happened. I wish Porsche would issue a recall but I wasn't going to wait for them. My track buddies are worth the dent in my wallet. :)

Slightly OT John, but are you attending the Carolinas's event in a couple weeks?[/QUOTE]

Scott, Yep the Carolinas' region Nov. 18-20. Going down with a good contingent of NER guys. It'd be great to meet you and anyother RL'ers attending. Also, would mind getting some coaching from some knowledgebale about the track. I've been three times. First two solid rain. The last this March, first time on the trrack with the 6-3 and a radiator hose blew on the third lap of the first session. Killed the event for me couldn't get the 38.00 part anywhere!!!

So I'm looking forward to a good event, good weather and finally learning the track.

Just had my coolant lines welded. During disassembly, 2 were not tight at the glued junctions. Whew!

Where did you have this done, Chuck? Kyle

Done locally (Ann Arbor), just picked it up yesterday.

what do you use for anti-corrosion? I've read water wetter doesn't provide
adequate protection.

If u check redline's website it satisfies the stringent corrosion tests ASTM D2570 and D1384 that is used to check glycol based coolants on the market. Who knows but rather have a rust bucket then injure people if it could be prevented. Mike

Very OT Mike, but gotta say Megan is one beautiful 6-3! Are those fiberglass doors? What's she weigh in at?

Back on Topic. Yes, much better to hazard some rust than risk somebody's safety!

Getty fg doors and thanks : ). With fluids and half tank it currently weighs 2750 wo driver. Still more weight to lose like 150 lbs more : (. Work in progress. Mike

1. Megan ROCKS! :biggulp:

2. Halloween is over, but this topic is still mother frickin' SCARY. :rolleyes:

Thank you, PAG, for owning up to this... NOT. :banghead:

Remember what they say about an ounce of prevention. My fittings are done. It's not 'just' the adhesive junctions. It could be the clamps or the rubber hoses.

My adhesive joints were still fine, but one of my hoses was aneurysmal and about to bust. All junctions are now welded and hoses are new and tight.

I've seen 3 GT1s vomit coolant at the circuit, and I could no longer sit on the time bomb. Granted, the ones I've witnessed were all hose issues... but the epoxy issue made me nervous as stink.

Ridiculous!

"Although this test method provides improved discrimination, it cannot conclusively predict satisfactory corrosion inhibition and service life. If greater assurance of satisfactory performance is desired, it should be obtained from full-scale engine tests (Test Method D2758) and from field testing in actual service (Practice D2847)."

Better than nothing though. I had my top fittings welded. Will have the rest welded next year as well as switching to water + water wetter.

Mine did go at mid Ohio a couple months back but thankfully no damage to anyone when mine went. I was gutted sitting there hoping nothing bad was happening behind me when it happened, I can only imagine what it would feel like if damage would have happened.

I wonder if this will be a problem on the new engine in the 991

Maybe 3 years ago in a NASA event at TH a 996 dumped oil from
midway of t9 to t10 all the way to t14(caught on fire thereafter) I was one of the 1st cars( 2 cars in front of me) hitting the oily patch going into t10 and car tank slapped to outside then back on asphalt and finally rested on inside part of track. Then 8 other cars behind me proceeded to spin as well and sitting watching and waiting for car(s) possibly slamming into me-man u are helpless. Thanks to the trackgods looking over us -no one got hit. Its wasn't a coolant leak but same slippery goo. The driver of the 996 was an instructor and car's rear end was on fire at exit of the esses so he made a good judgment- he drove his car offline to the closest flag station with a fire extinguisher which is by t14. If he parked it on the grass it woulda started a grass fire(very hot and dry grass day) and car woulda been fully toasted. Mike

If you're sitting on the fence about doing something about this problem, please watch my video from Mosport 2010 when a fitting let go on my 997 GT3:
The car stopped 6ft away from a concrete wall and had it been a lap earlier, without traffic, the outcome would have been catastrophic to my wallet and potentially my well being. If you want to see what it's like from the car behind, watch this video and scroll to ~3:30:
Because I'm still under warranty, I run water and water wetter in the summer and coolant in the winter since Porsche won't warranty a car with welded fittings. Please at least do that if you track your car. The cars behind me weren't as lucky with one going into the tire wall on my coolant :(

OVR had a DE at Mid Ohio and a members did let go. One total,one good hit,one spun off in his wake and I believe he knew he had a problem in advance? Was not there but saw the pics of the cars wrecked.

H.S.!!! thanks for posting those. Sorry to hear about what happened behind you.

Another option to water wetter, is Pencool 2000 (used to called Nalcool) which I have much experience with, though not in Porsches. I would not be afraid to try it.
http://www.penray.com/images/PENCOOL2000S.pdf

Peter

Porsche should just fix this for all gt1 block cars (gt3's and turbos). Penny wise pound foolish.

Has it ever caused a street incident?


jb

Mine came off at the track one day.. luckily I got a black flag and pulled right over and shut it down... no problem. I did miss a few sessions though. I did not want to spend the money to drop the engine and weld it however. We pulled the alternator, cleaned it up and repaired it with JB weld. It has been holding fine for a couple of years and many track days. So.. if you are at the track or on a back road this repair can be made on the fly. FYI. JB weld has also held the bottom of a BMW GS motorcycle oil leak from a rock going through the bottom of the engine for 4 years now... go figure!