mooty

i dont think dell needs to LEARN. he's plenty fast.
but dell, if you should want s2000, this is the one. i give you a deal on it.

you need a cage on s2000 or miata.

if you have more Q on S2000, email me. i would hate to hijack dell's thread.


dell, i emailed you (not sure which email addy is good) on my thoughts on BSR, E36M3 and SM. feel free to ping me if you got Q's.

LVDell

Don't worry about the highjack John. All good points. I got your email but actually headed to bed before you sent it last night!

mkk62

I rented a spec miata for a day when my car was getting set up and enjoyed it. I would buy one to race but unless I had a few other sm's to play with I found it not nearly as entertaining on turns. The sm would really hold well on corners, almost too well taking the sphincter factor out of the turn like with my 6-3. But I did find great feedback on whether I took turn correct when lead following. Exit speed apparently is so crucial on the straights.
I think you should rent one before buying. GL

996FLT6

Get a supercharger or turbo or a small block chevy v8. There's one guy with a v8 that does 1:54-1:55 at th. Tony of TCdesign had a supercharger on his and has similar times. Mike

utkinpol

I owned miata for a while. it is fine small car.

o speak of what you ask - you need to decide if you want a DE car or a club racing car. Any 'spec' car is a race car dedicated to fit into specific class to run against similar cars. If you want DEs I do not see much point in going into miata. whole point of spec miata is to allow normal average guys with limited budget to race. there are always some spec miatas for sale, i would not try to build one from scratch, it is waste of time. you can always replace what needed in the car you get.

Imho if you plan on doing mostly DE and later may consider racing I would get a spec boxster - it is a bit more fun as you get more power. or you can build/buy E36 based track car, it is also not very expensive to run.

speaking of all those chassis listed above only reason to go that way down from any 996/997 tub is to reduce operational costs. if you can afford to track 997 car - do it. If not - downgrade. I definitely cannot afford to race 997 tub but for a dozen of DE days per season it works out just fine.

85Gold

Dell,

If you go Maita route and SC it you can get pretty good NASA TT classing from Greg. We have a couple of local Miata guys 1 SC'd and 1 Turbo who are pretty quick and will blow a SM out of the water. The Turbo car runs 2:29's @ Sebing and the SC car runs 2:34's @ Sebring.

I went the 95M3 route. I got it with a built motor for $8000 but the suspension is just Sway bars and lowering springs. Right now I am having fun learning how to drive a momentum car and will add suspension later.

ps. Even weighting 3175#'s in NASA TTC trim and no suspension on Conti take offs it blows SM out of the water. 2:34's @ Sebring and I am leaving about 2 sec on the table from a really good driver.

Peter

Seth Thomas

Miata=:yawn:

No just kidding. I have driven several MX5 cup cars and Spec Miatas on track. They are a blast to drive, simple to maintain, and easy on parts for DE type stuff. The problem I have with them is the speed and speed potential with them for the budget you are setting for yourself. They will be slow, especially compared to your turbo or the GT3. Wait make that crawling slow compared to your other cars. They are fun in the turns but on a track like VIR they aren't as fun to drive as at a track like CMP or Roebling.

For <$10K I would look into an E36 M3 or 325/328. The base car can be had for a big price range ($1500 to $10K). The convenience of this chassis for a track car is the M3 parts bolt on a 325 so there are lots of easy parts to find making them cheap. The maintenance on the car is super easy to do yourself or for a shop to do cheaply. They engines are strong and run for a long time (friend has a specE36 with over 200K on stock engine that runs 1:41s all day at Road Atlanta). Take the weight out of the cars and they become 2800lb or less trackcars that are easy on tires and brakes. On the back straight at VIR you will still see 130+MPH so they feel fast. And they are fast enough that with student or friend in the passenger seat they will still feel they get the ride of their lives.

Just for reference about lap times and such for these cars here are a couple of samples.

VIR
2:12.9xx Spec E36 racecar (basically a stock 325 with a ****box H&R Spec suspension, 3.15 diff, and BGF R1s)
2:12.xxx Bone stock 1995 M3 except a JRZ RS suspension package from BimmerWorld and hoosiers
2:09.xxx Same car but gutted and a 3.64 diff (3.15 stock)
2:07.xxx NASA GTS3 328 (full racecar with big brakes, aero, headers, exhaust, cage, etc)
2:04.xxx NASA GTS4 M3 ((full racecar with big brakes, aero, headers, exhaust, cage, etc)

LVDell

Been there done that. Just sold my Spec Boxster last year as it is more $$$ than I care to have exposed on track. My requirements (see the first post) are <10K all in.

Thanks Seth, that is EXACTLY the data I needed to see. Several others have have told me to try and find an E36 4-door (strength) 325/328 with manual gearbox as it is very reliable. The biggest issue is the cost to get it "track worthy" is what has pointed me toward the Miata.

Sure, it's tough coming from a GT3 all the way down to this in terms of speed but I am just looking to have fun and do it in a car that won't break me in terms of finances if I wad it up.

utkinpol

based on my conversations with track E36 owner and spec boxster owners IMHO operation costs are very similar. as of '<10K all in' i do not understand how to do that. i understand good track E36 is about of $20-30K car depending of how much you spend on motor, brakes, data system, fire suppression, etc. pretty much same ballpark as spec boxster. donor cars for both do cost pretty much same money. spec miata may be will fit into $10K but probably only if you go with stock NA motor.

email Ian Prout of SCDA - "ian @AT@ scda1.com" - he races spec miatas and knows a lot about them. again I am not sure why to look at tub cost here, you should count maintenance money probably, not a base tub 'all in' cost.

SH || NC

Wouldn't that be plenty for DE?

Not to put words into Dell's mouth, but the recurring theme I am hearing from him, is cheap, fun, for DE.

LVDell

A fully built spec miata ready to go can be had for 10K. Obviously not a front runner with a blueprint motor, top of the line everything, etc..

A spec boxster will set you back between 25-50K depending on build out. While the operating costs are not nearly as high as say at GT3, the cost of a motor in a 986 is insane compared to a SM or BMW.

Remember, I have no stated I am going racing. Just want a good dedicated track car (i.e., race car not street car) that I can run at the limit, have fun, and feel safe at the same time.

Trust me, I have been doing this a long time, know the costs, and know the exposure on track. My thinking is very rational and pragmatic.

utkinpol

on a pragmatic side - total support costs of any purpose built track only car (tow, trailer, gas, etc.) will more than offset your current operational costs of streetable GT3 car you can drive to a track and drive back.

I think you will like E36 car much more than miata. go to any event where you have some guys driving it and may be you will find a way to try it out and make your own opinion of if you like it or not.

Seth Thomas

Dell, here is your car. Cage in this car is built by the best in the Atlanta area. The rest of the stuff is what you want for a track car and I bet the price is a little bit negotiable.

I can check it out for you if you like

1995 BMW E36 M3 Track Car. Silver coupe with 5 spd. Street legal. 170k miles. Dinan intake, chip, strut brace. Super fast and reliable. Upgraded sport suspension with Bilstein sports, lower springs and sway bars. Handles fantastic. Less than 1000 miles as track car. Over $7000.00 in upgrades. Gutted interior with new Robinson Racing fully welded club racing spec cage. New OMP drivers seat with Schroth Hans ready 6 point belt. New Momo wheel and ****. Aluminum floor pans (mats). Fixed carbon fiber sunroof panel. Excellent paint with no body damage. Comes with stock M Contour wheels with good tires and a set of 17 x 8 Kosei Track wheels with Kuhmo V710s. $11,500.00 (Atlanta, Ga)
VIN: WBSBF9326SEH04486
Charles at (404) 593-7758 or calhounmetalworks@earthlink.net

Photos at:
http://photobucket.com/calhoune36m3

LVDell

utkin.....I'm beginning to think you are just posting for the sake of posting as you are not listening to what I have said and implying quite a bit.

Seth, thanks. I'll ping you offline.

utkinpol

not really, I just have about of $50K sitting aside and trying to figure out same problem you are after. it is I just tried to drive E36 based car and it did not work for me at all. that`s all I`m saying - try it first, then buy.

i personally getting more and more inclined to build or buy gutted c5 z06 car now or may be '09 c06. will see how it all will work out.