NO ONE will believe this!
08-05-2004, 06:17 PM
#16
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
Originally Posted by Philip in AL
snip...the tack is not able to keep up to speed with the engines revs. In other words, the engine has hit 8,200 revs as my tach is crossing about 7,200, 7,300.
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
08-05-2004, 06:57 PM
#17
Racer
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Philip in AL
996FLT6 you hit one problem right on the nose. Having spent some of this morning with the tuner, I learned a few things:
1) Base line IS low, due to a couple of reasons: wheel slip (assistant's error), outside temp and more importantly engine temp! I was told that he could make only 3 dyno runs at a time (and should really only have done two at a time), due to the car heating up. It said that in that particular car, it was very difficult for that reason. Run one would go great; run two would start to heat up pretty good and as result, he would see pretty bad drops in HP. Run 3 showed big drops.
They have multiple industrial squirrel fans set right up at the front end of the car, but he said that there is still no way to provide adequate cooling. Another note of interest was the negative effect on HP that resulted from a run while leaving the engine lid up. He stated that the incoming air was being drawn across the hot motor as opposed to from outside of the engine compartment. Once again, he was looking for ways to keep the car cooled down during the test.
1) Base line IS low, due to a couple of reasons: wheel slip (assistant's error), outside temp and more importantly engine temp! I was told that he could make only 3 dyno runs at a time (and should really only have done two at a time), due to the car heating up. It said that in that particular car, it was very difficult for that reason. Run one would go great; run two would start to heat up pretty good and as result, he would see pretty bad drops in HP. Run 3 showed big drops.
They have multiple industrial squirrel fans set right up at the front end of the car, but he said that there is still no way to provide adequate cooling. Another note of interest was the negative effect on HP that resulted from a run while leaving the engine lid up. He stated that the incoming air was being drawn across the hot motor as opposed to from outside of the engine compartment. Once again, he was looking for ways to keep the car cooled down during the test.
Further more this probably would not go away with the addition of the chip so if the car was getting to hot and the atmospheric conditions were unfavorable what you're really saying is that on a good day with a proper dyno it would dyno even higher than 391? This is just totally out in left field there is no way. 391 at wheels is already getting close to 500 horsepower at the crank no doubt. It took other tuners an increase in displacement to 4.6L to do that as far as I know.
Here is the real kicker! The stumbling I told you about at around 7,000 rpm's; it is Porsche's rev limiter. It appears that the limiter reads from the engine (of coarse), and the tack is not able to keep up to speed with the engines revs. In other words, the engine has hit 8,200 revs as my tach is crossing about 7,200, 7,300.
I don't have all the answers, that what I paid him for. He will get it all worked out. More later.
I don't have all the answers, that what I paid him for. He will get it all worked out. More later.
08-05-2004, 07:13 PM
#18
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't have an explanation, but the one thing that I can't figure out is this: Car sits on dyno with stock setup and reads 321; car doesn't move and chip is pluged in, now reads 391; chip is unpluged again and dyno reads 321 again (give or take, but you know what I mean). Can any one come up with an answer to that one?
There is one explanation maybe. What if the base read is showing me RWHP and the final is showing engine HP! That would make more sense now that I think about it. What if my base numbers (stock) are a little low, due to me just getting a "weak" motor (say my base is about 325, X 1.18 would give me 383 hp). What if the 391 hp is actually crank (I picked up 8hp). I don't know, but it sure feels a lot faster!
There is one explanation maybe. What if the base read is showing me RWHP and the final is showing engine HP! That would make more sense now that I think about it. What if my base numbers (stock) are a little low, due to me just getting a "weak" motor (say my base is about 325, X 1.18 would give me 383 hp). What if the 391 hp is actually crank (I picked up 8hp). I don't know, but it sure feels a lot faster!
Last edited by Philip in AL; 08-05-2004 at 07:25 PM. Reason: added
08-05-2004, 07:32 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
There is no way that that you will gain 70 rwhp with a chip change, something definitely is wrong with the 321rwhp number.
I see two choices, first i would go to a different dyno and compare numbers and if you are still low on the stock numbers i would go to the dealer and complain of low power output.
If these cars are going low 12's in the quarter mile at 115 mph they cannot be making 321 rwhp.
I would try another dyno, there not so expensive.
As far as revving past 7200 rpm, does it go to 8000 rpm with the stock setup?......There is something definitely wrong there, could be your problem, something you should check with the stock setup.
I see two choices, first i would go to a different dyno and compare numbers and if you are still low on the stock numbers i would go to the dealer and complain of low power output.
If these cars are going low 12's in the quarter mile at 115 mph they cannot be making 321 rwhp.
I would try another dyno, there not so expensive.
As far as revving past 7200 rpm, does it go to 8000 rpm with the stock setup?......There is something definitely wrong there, could be your problem, something you should check with the stock setup.
08-05-2004, 10:04 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Maybe they did the baseline in 4th gear and then the chipped run in 3rd?
Sorry, I am really skeptical too. If your guy can extract another 70hp out of your engine with just a chip and air filter, than he ought be running the engine department at Porsche!
Sorry, I am really skeptical too. If your guy can extract another 70hp out of your engine with just a chip and air filter, than he ought be running the engine department at Porsche!
08-05-2004, 10:40 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
I would seek a refund. Something's not right including the dyno figures. If they are standing by those claims, they are scheisters plain and simple. If you want to chip it, have it done right by a reputable tuner like Evo or Imagine auto using GIAC and buy another ecu for chipping. You will see little if any of the 996TT guys using powerchip. GIAC or Upsolute are the players.
08-06-2004, 12:15 AM
#22
Pro
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello guys, these cars were not designed for chipping, they were designed for flash programming. Check out REVOtechnik.com. It is now available for Porsche and if you have any questions, call me.
www.hergesheimer.com
www.hergesheimer.com
08-06-2004, 01:38 AM
#23
Super Moderator
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by Philip in AL
Another note of interest was the negative effect on HP that resulted from a run while leaving the engine lid up. He stated that the incoming air was being drawn across the hot motor as opposed to from outside of the engine compartment.
Here is the real kicker! The stumbling I told you about at around 7,000 rpm's; it is Porsche's rev limiter. It appears that the limiter reads from the engine (of coarse), and the tack is not able to keep up to speed with the engines revs. In other words, the engine has hit 8,200 revs as my tach is crossing about 7,200, 7,300.
I don't have all the answers, that what I paid him for. He will get it all worked out. More later.
Here is the real kicker! The stumbling I told you about at around 7,000 rpm's; it is Porsche's rev limiter. It appears that the limiter reads from the engine (of coarse), and the tack is not able to keep up to speed with the engines revs. In other words, the engine has hit 8,200 revs as my tach is crossing about 7,200, 7,300.
I don't have all the answers, that what I paid him for. He will get it all worked out. More later.
As an engineer, when I read those statements from your 'tuner', my BS detector goes off scale. I don't even know where to begin.
My fear is that in trying to 'get it all worked out', he is going to ruin your engine and your car's warranty.....if you even still have one at this point.
Please have him put everything back the way it was and enjoy the car the way the Wizards from Weissach intended.
08-06-2004, 03:13 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
Phil. On your 2nd post you pointed out that at 7000 rpms that engine would cut off like a rev limiter had hit but the other thing I'm concerned is that your car went in limp mode like you say it won't rev past 1000 rpms. I am guessing on this so take it with a grain of salt. The tuner has really leaned out the fuel to the point the ECU will intervene to avoid detonation so it goes in bog mode for that reason. And just hitting the rev limiter will not cause the check engine to lite up so if possible since you say you have a UNICHIP plug and play(I have the old set up with a piggyback wired to the main ECU unles it's the same thing) can you default to regular setting. I have a bypass on mine since only time it's used is at the track(my regular 996). Having a lean mixture isn't good at all. Just my guess. Regards. Mike
08-06-2004, 10:51 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Personally speaking, I do not trust anybody other thanthe engineers at Porsche to tune my engine. I would put it back to stock if it were my car. It sounds like this is one of the first cars they are testing this "program" . I would never want my car to be guniea pig.
08-06-2004, 11:18 AM
#26
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
996FLT6 air fuel ratio is fine all the way through. I have all those charts and readings also. Something else that was odd; after the car went limp, and the check engine light came on, I restarted and everything was fine. However; the check engine light remained on the next day (and would stay on), at some point, it just went away like it had never been on!
08-06-2004, 12:13 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
The engine check engine light code will still be in the computer, get it checked out at the dealer to see what it was, it is an expensive engine don't take any chances.
I do think there are people than can tune these cars, but the gains should be Minimal, 10 to 15 rwhp at most.l
I do think there are people than can tune these cars, but the gains should be Minimal, 10 to 15 rwhp at most.l
08-06-2004, 12:52 PM
#28
Pro
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update: 1) stripped back down to factory air filter and dme; used the proper sticky spray on the tires, picked up 16hp from the first base of 321.6. Now at about 337rwhp (I guess that's from 394 to 398 hp at the fly). Puts it where it should be!
2) Faulty Unichip, getting in touch with them as we speak, to see if it can be reprogrammed or must be returned.
3) The unchip setup has a small rocker switch with an LED light on it. When activated, it bumps the timing by an addition 6 degrees (I think that's what he said), anyway, I was told NOT to use the advanced setting unless I WAS SURE that I had high quality fuel (such as racing fuel) in the tank. When they stripped the Unichip out, they noted that the switch had accidentally been knocked into the advanced seting, when it was tucked away.
BTW, I can't get spellcheck to work; anyone else having this problem? When I click it, it says error on page.
2) Faulty Unichip, getting in touch with them as we speak, to see if it can be reprogrammed or must be returned.
3) The unchip setup has a small rocker switch with an LED light on it. When activated, it bumps the timing by an addition 6 degrees (I think that's what he said), anyway, I was told NOT to use the advanced setting unless I WAS SURE that I had high quality fuel (such as racing fuel) in the tank. When they stripped the Unichip out, they noted that the switch had accidentally been knocked into the advanced seting, when it was tucked away.
BTW, I can't get spellcheck to work; anyone else having this problem? When I click it, it says error on page.
08-06-2004, 02:07 PM
#30
Super Moderator
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Needs More Cowbell
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by Philip in AL
I was told NOT to use the advanced setting unless I WAS SURE that I had high quality fuel (such as racing fuel) in the tank.