Nickshu

Aside from historical value compared to driving a 996 you will be disappointed with an SC, especially for street driving. (If you note in my signature I owned and drove an '82 SC for 14 years).

spreeleon

thank you Nick! That is really helpful. I would have to sell my c4s and then add money on top to get into an sc with double the mileage of my car. The more i talk to previous owners and current owners it just doesnt seem like a good trade. And yes its strictly for backroads street driving where the extra hp and torque is nice in the c4s.

thanks again gents!
appreciate it
leon
now should i go and install some 200 cell cats?!

TonyTwoBags

Something to think about Leon is the animal spirits behind the rise of SC/911 pricing.

In reaction to a new era of much larger, gt-car focused Carreras (997.2, 991) and thanks to some clever marketing in Southern California, air-cooled ownership has become a social event just as much as a driving endeavor. The rising prices meant I couldn't buy the 911 I wanted - an '81 Targa - and had to 'settle' for a 996.2 C2. In retrospect, the market did me a favor. I never intended to buy a new era 911, but here I am.

As the SC market cools off I may dip my toes in, but it won't be at the expense of selling my 996 C2. It's too smooth a driver, too comfortable on trips across the desert & simply too much fun around town and in the twisties. The 966 era is the last of true driver's cars that lack electronic aids to manage the growingly absurd levels of power. Watching a few videos on the Carrera GT last night reminded me of this.

In my clearly biased mind, to get the performance and fun-factor of a 996 in an old car, you need either turbos or in depth engine work. It can be done, but not for the modest price point I can gather. The grass isn't always greener - just focus on extracting the most smiles out of the 911 you own. Save some for an opportunity in the SC market long term. Whatever you do, don't cheat yourself by selling a 996 at the market low point for an SC near market highs. A little patience and you'll make out just fine.

dporto

There is good reason that the 996 was so widely praised when it was released. Very simply, it's an all around "better" (the numbers don't lie) car than all the 911's that preceded it. The well published M96 engine problems have obviously tarnished the resale values and collect-ability in the ensuing years, but these issue don't diminish the abilities/drive-ability of the car. It's really just the air-cooled purists trying to retain the value of cars that many of them payed crazy money for. Nostalgia is often more powerful than reality...

Chris(MA)

I agree, I owned a 1988 Carrera 3.2 targa for 2 years and although I do regret selling it, part of that is nostalgia and of course the crazy appreciation.

When I started driving 996's with a view to buying mine, I was pleasantly surprised how old school 911 it felt, it had most of the driving experience of the older cars but with refinement to go with it, and just the right amount of updates without being a rolling technology center.

Power steering but not the numb electric systems of more modern cars, ABS brakes, airbags (I drive the family in it), decent interior without looking gimmicky and being plastered with buttons.

Although I do like the newer 911's, they are so complex with loads of tech in them that will date, they seem to bloat bigger and bigger each year, massive rims that ride horrid on the crappy roads here, engines that are very complicated (have you seen how much plastic the 991.2 engine has in it? plastic sump!!), very expensive price tags and lots of depreciation.

Although I accept the m96 is the potential headache of owning a 996, if you get a good one these cars give the best smile per $ around

spreeleon

HI again Tony Two Bags!

Excellent feedback. I can't agree with you more and it's nice to see on here similar Pcar enthusiasts that aren't totally loaded and have the ability to just purchase whatever Pcar they like. Nothing against that but I do respect people like yourself that may not have a surplus of funds to splurge but have such an intense love for the cars that you will find a way to get into a Pcar. That's exactly the boat i'm in. I was priced out of the air cooled cars and doing my research I just felt that the 996 c4s i got into last year was the best value.

Recently I had contemplated getting my feet wet as well in an SC but it really meant that I'd be paying several K on top for a somewhat sorted high mileage one that would still need to be upgraded and modified in order for me to enjoy it. Initially I had this incorrect notion that air cooled cars had a "cooler" sound to the engine and exhaust. All this talk from the air cooled fans about how nothing beats that fan noise and mechanical noises. The more i watched videos on youtube and attended car and coffees to check out those SCs in person I realized that the exhaust and engine sounds were disappointing, I know I will be getting flamed by the air cooled fans but just stating my personal observation. Hence I was asking about the Magnus Walker cars and the exhaust and burbles of his cars. Now that's the sound that appeals to me BUT 99% of air cooled cars I've seen do NOT sound like his cars. Obviously his cars are tuned to the max and in order for me to want to pay a ton more for an older car I'd need to make sure i'm getting the full sensory feedback. To me, from my research it seems like that would entail a ton of mods and would be extremely expensive.

In summary, a stock SC would probably NOT give me the joy that my 996 c4s provides. Yes, a nicely tuned one that costs significantly more would most likely give me what i want in an older P car but that will be when I save up in future. Hopefully....

always great chatting!
leon

spreeleon

oh and this comment I will take to heart for sure: "Whatever you do, don't cheat yourself by selling a 996 at the market low point for an SC near market highs. A little patience and you'll make out just fine"

I had been thinking the exact same thing myself. 80s air cooled all were on a tear for past 10 years. 996s have fallen and fallen and fallen. I do think that eventually people will realize how nice a 996 drives especially with some tasteful mods and will realize that an SC is not worth 2x-3x a 996.

TonyTwoBags

I've seen your notes in some of the SC & 3.2 cars that I've been monitoring & figured a little encouragement based on what I've learned could help.

Check out this thread for some background on this C4S, which sounds fantastic imo for a dual track/street build:

thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-996-post.html


Cheers & have a good weekend Leon

spreeleon

awesome, thanks for sharing. I think im going to throw on a pair of 200 cel cats to augment the pse sounds!

TonyTwoBags

A few other suggestions on the induction side:

IPD plenums aren't cheap, but they do improve sound of induction (which can be quite loud above 4k rpm). They're well designed & don't throw any codes. Plug & play, great mod imo. Love mine. Get the regular size one (996 Carrera S 3.6L IPD Plenum | Part #96174-3.6) for the easiest install & compatibility with the ECU

Resonator delete really opens up the induction sound coming out of the intake manifolds. At wide open throttle the car really howls above 4k. Thread here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...irbox-mod.html

So for less than $1,000 you can fully revamp induction to improve flow & sound AND have zero issues with your air/fuel mixture. No check engine lights or codes thrown.

spreeleon

Thanks Tony!

I currently have that Schnell red hose which removes that remholz silencer tube. I did notice more of a howl on WOT in higher rpm range.

So you mention the design tech cel 200 cats. Do you know of any other brands that are solid and sold here in the sTates?

Thanks again Tony,
Leon

Vdubjetta02

I have 200 Cell HFC's and my car burbles as well when I lift off the throttle.

*Check out Speedtech and NHP

spreeleon

Thank you! Which ones do you have on your 996?

I"ve heard about:
- Speedtech
- NHP
- Cargraphic
- FVD
- Fabspeed

Any suggestions as best ones for the money?
I am trying to do some searches online and came across this: https://flat6motorsports.com/collect...pipe-996-997-1

I also want to make sure that the xpipe i get will be an easy install on my c4s with pse mufflers. I know i've read that the 1st gen fabspeed xpipes didn't fit well.

spreeleon

also, is it safe to say that the engine/exhausts of modded 996 can be just as nice if not more raw than on an sc??

TonyTwoBags

I wouldn't go down the road of comparison beyond the point that you can get an m96 to sound pretty damn good and loud. Or good & refined. It's all about experimenting with your build and tuning it to the spec that makes you happy.

This month will see 3 sets of mufflers on my 996. There is no substitute for good old fashioned grunt work & experimentation to find out what works for you. Plus there are tons of youtube videos to address basic questions about sound. The details can be worked out in person. Enjoy the journey