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What Failure Diagnoses Require Engine Drop/Glitter in Oil

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Old 01-11-2018, 07:30 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
I could be wrong but I think the bore scoring at the bottom of the bore would be due to piston rocking. If this was the case, then I think you would have ferrous debris from the iron piston skirt coating being rubbed off also.
Iron piston skirt coating?
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:24 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Porschetech3 View Post
What about your thrust bearing? Is it ok? You have not found the source of the metal particles ?
That's a good guess.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:44 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ahsai View Post
That's a good guess.
Will have the crank carrier apart tomorrow and will post.

Crank turns super smoothly...
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:45 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by JTT View Post
Iron piston skirt coating?
They all look in great condition. This is #3 and the dark line corresponds to the location of the scratch/gouge in the cylinder. Otherwise the wear was similar as this.



Last edited by leoj65; 01-15-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:20 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by tomcat View Post
I was asking about the edge of the pistons where the carbon is missing. Did the piston hit the head?
Just cleaner there for some reason. No head contact.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:28 PM
  #96
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@leoj65 - this is an amazing undertaking. Good on you! Did you attend the rebuild class at Jakes, or just take the online course?

Im excited to see how the story ends :-)

Ps - answered my own question. I saw you post the online class info above. I hope Jake offers more. I think an on demand video would get way more traction than a live webinar.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:25 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by TheBruce View Post
@leoj65 - this is an amazing undertaking. Good on you! Did you attend the rebuild class at Jakes, or just take the online course?

Im excited to see how the story ends :-)

Ps - answered my own question. I saw you post the online class info above. I hope Jake offers more. I think an on demand video would get way more traction than a live webinar.
I think so too. It would be nice if you could go back and revisit areas as you progress.. In the online class it was a tradeoff between taking notes and paying attention, and as I said I missed a bunch due to connection problems.

I think the "taking-apart" part is the easy part compared to the assembly I am sure. I have worked a bit on top ends on single cylinder motorcycles a couple of times, replaced timing belts on cars and such but that's it for technical difficulty.

I will say this engine seems to be designed for assembly/disassembly as it just comes apart in a methodical way with almost all standard tools (a few exceptions). For instance there is only one circlip I have encountered in the whole thing, electrical and other connections are very straightforward with only the power steering lines really being difficult to get to. It's very modular and in most instances all the bolts are the same length and size so there is not a lot of having to keep track of where each one goes, just mark a bag "left head bolts" or whatever and put them all in. For example all the 24 bolts that hold the case halves together are exactly the same size and length. Also no little random springs or other thing shooting out of places as things come apart. There are actually very few moving parts compared to a lot of other engines IMO. Also I was an electronics tech so that removes some of that mystery.

In my whole first time engine removal experience, I broke one plastic cable guide, stripped one bolt on a lifter cradle (didn't fully seat the allen socket when I turned it, came out with easy-out ), and snapped one exhaust bolt to the head. I claim the head bolt wasn't my fault as I sprayed it with lube for a day or two beforehand, and it still wouldnt come out later using a torch and easy out.

I just need to find the source of the glitter the find out if the damage/wear on the few places I have found is fatal, and I will have to decide on the next course of action. probably nickies and possibly pay for someone to assemble the short block. I have confidence in my wrenching but the corporate knowledge part is the unknown. I have used calipers and dial indicators before, and I believe I understand setting end play, but have never done it.... I understand and have used a torque wrench but have never torqued a crank. These are the areas where I waiver a bit.

Last edited by leoj65; 01-11-2018 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:02 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by leoj65 View Post
I will say this engine seems to be designed for assembly/disassembly as it just comes apart in a methodical way with almost all standard tools (a few exceptions).
I agree. Its way easier working on my 997 than my Land Rover. The Land Rover has all sorts of magic bolts that are impossible to reach and difference size nuts on the same part for no rhyme or reason.

Excited to see your progress. Whats next on the tear down?
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:52 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by TheBruce View Post
I agree. Its way easier working on my 997 than my Land Rover. The Land Rover has all sorts of magic bolts that are impossible to reach and difference size nuts on the same part for no rhyme or reason.

Excited to see your progress. Whats next on the tear down?
Crank carrier, then clean and inspect everything to look for metal source as it was not blatantly obvious.
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:15 AM
  #100
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Noticed that the #4 valves look different than the others....

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Old 01-15-2018, 12:50 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by leoj65
I think so too. It would be nice if you could go back and revisit areas as you progress.. In the online class it was a tradeoff between taking notes and paying attention, and as I said I missed a bunch due to connection problems.

I think the "taking-apart" part is the easy part compared to the assembly I am sure. I have worked a bit on top ends on single cylinder motorcycles a couple of times, replaced timing belts on cars and such but that's it for technical difficulty.

I will say this engine seems to be designed for assembly/disassembly as it just comes apart in a methodical way with almost all standard tools (a few exceptions). For instance there is only one circlip I have encountered in the whole thing, electrical and other connections are very straightforward with only the power steering lines really being difficult to get to. It's very modular and in most instances all the bolts are the same length and size so there is not a lot of having to keep track of where each one goes, just mark a bag "left head bolts" or whatever and put them all in. For example all the 24 bolts that hold the case halves together are exactly the same size and length. Also no little random springs or other thing shooting out of places as things come apart. There are actually very few moving parts compared to a lot of other engines IMO. Also I was an electronics tech so that removes some of that mystery.

In my whole first time engine removal experience, I broke one plastic cable guide, stripped one bolt on a lifter cradle (didn't fully seat the allen socket when I turned it, came out with easy-out ), and snapped one exhaust bolt to the head. I claim the head bolt wasn't my fault as I sprayed it with lube for a day or two beforehand, and it still wouldnt come out later using a torch and easy out.

I just need to find the source of the glitter the find out if the damage/wear on the few places I have found is fatal, and I will have to decide on the next course of action. probably nickies and possibly pay for someone to assemble the short block. I have confidence in my wrenching but the corporate knowledge part is the unknown. I have used calipers and dial indicators before, and I believe I understand setting end play, but have never done it.... I understand and have used a torque wrench but have never torqued a crank. These are the areas where I waiver a bit.
If you can invest in a good torque wrench that also does angle aswel as torque setting as the bearing carrier, conrod and cylinder head bolts need torquing to a certain value then go further by a set angle , you can use an angle gauge but it's a bit tricky in the can box doing the head bolts as there's not much room!
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Old 01-15-2018, 03:02 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Noz1974 View Post
If you can invest in a good torque wrench that also does angle aswel as torque setting as the bearing carrier, conrod and cylinder head bolts need torquing to a certain value then go further by a set angle , you can use an angle gauge but it's a bit tricky in the can box doing the head bolts as there's not much room!
Gonna need to buy a larger torque wrench so I will take a look at them!

Thanks!
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:08 PM
  #103
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Thrust bearings. Guess which one faced the clutch.. I have never seen one of these before, is the scoring/gouging normal? Seems like it should be smooth wear. The friction face on the crank it pressed against was totally smooth.

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Old 01-16-2018, 02:12 PM
  #104
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Do you have a pic of the other side of these bearings? I think I saw something...
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:15 PM
  #105
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If you Search , you'll find Thrust Bearing issues are mentioned but it seems unpredictable which engines suffer & who knows why?. Mine had perfect Thrust bearings at 90k miles but other items were worn.I speculate it may (like the IMSB) be influenced by manufacturing errrors/misalignment in addition to driver error(riding the clutch) and inadequate maintenance . Be sure to do all the appropriate end float measurements many times and very carefully when reassembling?
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