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What Failure Diagnoses Require Engine Drop/Glitter in Oil

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Old 07-15-2017, 01:31 AM
  #31  
leoj65
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Unfortunately, I have read on these forums about the problem with scoring happening where its hard to see. Are any of the three cylinders accessible from the sump on the most likely right bank? The #6 cylinder? If I can find any evidence of scoring, that gets me to the place where I can approach the warranty company and get the payment games going....


Thanks again.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:33 AM
  #32  
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Schnell, what did you end up doing. Was there a warranty company involved? Did they pay?


Hergesheimer is an hour away. I will call them tomorrow.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:20 AM
  #33  
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Take the car to Tony Callas. He's my co- instructor for all our hands- on classes, and he knows these engines after years of working with me, and seeing the same things in his shop.

My skin crawled when I read "drive it another 500 miles"...
Nah... It'll go ahead and blow up. Thats called "self- diagnosis". Not even they could screw up that diagnosis!

Telling anyone to drive a car that had debris laden oil is moronic.
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:44 AM
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OP, what magnet you used to test the oil? My guess is some of the debris are ferrous. If you still have the oil, you could drop a neodymium magnet in it and see what happens.

Not saying it can't happen but I don't recall any engine failure case reported online with only nonferrous debris.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:05 AM
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Not saying it can't happen but I don't recall any engine failure case reported online with only nonferrous debris.
Happens with most every cylinder failure we see.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post
Happens with most every cylinder failure we see.
I see. So if truly no ferrous debris, bore scoping the cylinders should reveal the culprit easily.
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:07 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post
Both of them have their heads way up their asses. Don't take them a Go Kart to work on, much less a Porsche.

The IMS Bearing is 100% made of FERROUS materials. There's no metal in the bearing that isn't ferrous. It has no copper in the composition.None. Zero.

They have probably seen an IMSB failure where copper was present. Why? Because it ran long enough shedding ferrous material that it destroyed the main bearings, and rod bearings as collateral damages. Those bearings DO have copper in their composition.

The bore scope will usually show nothing in regard to cylinder wear. Why? Because the wear starts at the bottom of the bore. This is the point that is covered when the piston is positioned at BDC for a bore scope evaluation. The piston covers the point where wear begins, and is always the greatest.

The only way to see this is removal of the sump plate and going in from underneath, through the "back door" with the piston at TDC during inspection. This means you have to scope through the spark plug hole, and through the sump.

The issue is that you can only access 3 of 6 cylinders from the sump plate due to obstructions.

Why install a magnet to monitor non- ferrous material? Yes folks, we can't make this up. Shops are getting worse- if you can't plug a scan tool into it and fix it, they are lost. The are "Technicians", because they damn sure aren't "mechanics". Mechanical things kick their asses.
What's the process to be able to properly bore scope all 6 cylinders, as you described 3 are inaccessible from the sump, do you have to tear down the engine?
I know you do a serious ppi, do you bore scope all 6 cylinders on the 996's you ppi?
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:23 AM
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I have a medical grade endoscope. It has the ability to remotely wiggle the end of the unit, and the sheath for the probe is 10X smaller than a commercial borescope. With this I can access the bottom of all cylinders through the sump except #3.

Tear it down.

This is EXACTLY why I won't even think about touching a car with a warranty. Those people **** me off, and waste my time. Nothing they request makes mechanical sense.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post
I have a medical grade endoscope. It has the ability to remotely wiggle the end of the unit, and the sheath for the probe is 10X smaller than a commercial borescope. With this I can access the bottom of all cylinders through the sump except #3.

Tear it down.

This is EXACTLY why I won't even think about touching a car with a warranty. Those people **** me off, and waste my time. Nothing they request makes mechanical sense.
That makes sense since warranty companies are for profit companies run by mbas and not mechanics or car guys. Sucks, but that's reality.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:54 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by AnthonyGS View Post
That makes sense since warranty companies are for profit companies run by mbas and not mechanics or car guys. Sucks, but that's reality.
The polyester suit wearing, cubicle sitting, clowns that are paid on a reverse commission are the biggest pain in the ***. The more money they save the company, the more they net on commission most of the time.

After all the issues I have seen the only thing that I can put together about their agenda, is they want top **** the owner off so bad that they just give up on the warranty claim, and pay for the job themselves. Thats the only thing that would make sense in regard to the back and forth running around, phone calls, and etc that have to occur with these claims.

Some people have an OK experience with a warranty for simple issues that cost a few hundred bucks, or even a couple thousand. When you hit them with a real bill, expect a fight.

All that said, there's one company that will offer a warranty and stand behind it. LaSalle Warranty Company. These guys are the only ones we'll work with here, and they have paid every claim within hours. They've never balked at a cost, or wanted to do something crazy, like installing a used engine. You deal with the owner, who is very direct, up front, and concise. He's not some cubicle guy...

Too bad that they will only cover cars up to 10 years old, though..

I'd not spend the money on a warranty. I'd save some money and do preventative things to the engine...

I never ask for a warranty with anything, and if it breaks I won;t even return it. I know all thats going to happen is some stupid piece of fine print is going to get me on a technicality, and its going to **** me off. Had that happen to water pump for my pond a few weeks ago. I just took it pout back, filled it with 2 pounds of Tannerite, and neighbors 5 miles away heard their windows rattle when it detonated.
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US Patents 8,992,089, 9,416,697 & 9,909,469

Inventor of the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974


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Old 07-16-2017, 11:44 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post
I just took it out back, filled it with 2 pounds of Tannerite, and neighbors 5 miles away heard their windows rattle when it detonated.
I literally laughed out loud at this. Most posters here probably know nothing of tannerite. Every time I go shooting with a large group in the boonies, it seems someone always brings some. I've never thought of using it to dispose of items that aggravate. It sounds therapeutic.
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Old 07-16-2017, 11:55 AM
  #42  
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Default Warranty Company Alternative

A better alternative is to deal with a seller who has been suggested to you by a competent, honest Indie. Probably one of his customers .The history is known. The Indie won't want to help an unpleasant customer or recommend considering a bad car. He hopes to continue servicing the car. He has way more skin in the game than a Warranty Company.
Remember the Warranty Agreement is written by THEIR lawyer not yours. So who do you think will prevail in court ?
An exception may be the CarMax warranty ?
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...-warranty.html
http://jalopnik.com/should-i-get-a-c...max-1692448481
To make my Indie point on a more personal level -there was a Porsche recently sold on Bring a Trailer that Jake had worked on. We discussed it at length here. If you bought that car & it developed a problem, who would you call ?
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:07 PM
  #43  
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M96 Busters
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:12 PM
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Living near Jake must be like the 4th of July all year long!
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:52 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post
I have a medical grade endoscope. It has the ability to remotely wiggle the end of the unit, and the sheath for the probe is 10X smaller than a commercial borescope. With this I can access the bottom of all cylinders through the sump except #3.

Tear it down.

This is EXACTLY why I won't even think about touching a car with a warranty. Those people **** me off, and waste my time. Nothing they request makes mechanical sense.
That's interesting, sad that most don't incorporate this into their investigate process.
Where is the pride in ones chosen trade for these people.
I laughed when I read that the warranty company gave the OP "the okay to do the tear down...at his own expense"
Talk about double talk lol
You'd have to reply "thank you very go **** yourself"
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