B-ran

After just reading mp2day's track day misfortunes, and having read other track day engine tragedies before I'm wondering how many of you have experienced a failure on the track, and what caused it. I'm hoping to do a DE event at Blackhawk Farms next week (if the weather plays nice and I can get away from work). But quite honestly, the horrible reads too much on the forums fear is taking hold, and now I know I will have sleepless nights with nightmares of engines exploding on my first DE.

Chris(MA)

You have the deep sump X51 type kit on your car? fresh oil change and clear radiators?

Cuda911

Good comment by Chris(MA). Most of the track failures I have seen are due to:

1. Smashing into immovable objects (by far the most common mode of failure).

2. Oil starvation. If it's your first event, you won't be skilled enough to generate high Gs for long periods, so not really and issue.

3. Overheating. If you aren't running in the desert with bad rads, you should be fine.

johnireland

Get the deep sump before you venture on a track. And then have a plan to learn the track and the car. You've got the rest of your life to enjoy doing this so don't try to do it all at the first event. Take advantage of the instruction. Give yourself rev limits...start with something easy like 5000 rpm for the first half of the first day. Then raise it to 5500 for the second half. If it is a two day event, go to 6000 and then 6500 on day two. If it is a one day event then find a way to brake the increments into four periods. Work on feeling the car, listening to the engine, work on your down shift and learning the line. Ignore your speedometer and only think of rpms and gears. Don't think about passing people, instead work on following the instructors and learning their lines. As you come out of every turn and onto a straight, glance at your oil pressure, your engine temp, then wiggle your fingers (to get rid of the death grip) and your toes, and your *** in the seat. Get the blood circulating and breath. Enjoy.

Cuda911

Don't agree, until you get better. Not a bad suggestion though.

Agree.

Agree

Agree

Don't agree.

Agree

Agree

Good suggestion.

Agree!

TonyTwoBags

I feel ya B-ran. Took my C2 to one HPDE right after buying it. Had a great time, but don't have the stomach to get it back out again. Not ideal, but workable given all the fun roads around here.

What I've read on the subject suggests:

- use a good oil to give you the best shot of having healthy lubrication even at high temps (XP-9)
- low temp thermostat can help keep temps down. 3rd rad kit also helps
- deep sump is a plus as stated, though I'm not sure how much more pressure you get in high G situations. Last time I took the 996 on a proper mountain loop I noticed some sharp oil pressure drop offs while chirping around the switchbacks. I made a point to go easy on it coming out of those turns & things returned to normal away from the super tight sections.
- if you watch Vandersmith's track videos, you'll probably notice he is very easy on the drivetrain. I'm not sure what rpm he shifts at, but it's obvious he has put a lot of thought into his process. Not only that, he's put a lot of days out of his C4S on the track. Maybe drop a PM for him or raise the question in his thread chronicling his 996 track days. I've seen other references to lowering the rev limit on track to eliminate unnecessarily high oil temps. Maybe some of the guys that have gone down that road can elaborate.

Bottom line for me when hooning about is to focus on temps & pressure. If they don't look good, I back off.

Paul Waterloo

Just so you know, I experienced oil pressure drops at Blackhawk last year with street tires (and they are DWS'!) on the back sweeper. 5 or 6 laps into the session, going around the sweeper it would drop to 2.5 bar or so.....and I decided not to run any longer.

Mike Murphy

Have fun at Blackhawk and don't worry. Then, if you still want to track a car, get a Miata or something else that you will have fun with and still be able to sleep at night.

dgi 07

IMHO, if you really want to rest easy about oil pressure, get a 2 qt Accusump (No affiliation) and call it a day.

Other option is stay off the track and stick to the back roads. (my choice)
Disclaimer - Backroads ARE more dangerous than track. Speeds are lower than the track, but if you get your line or braking wrong, it won't end well. Tracks don't have trees, guardrails and vehicles going the other way.

Hardback

Avoid $$$ shift and your car will survive the day.

mp2day

So I'm a total noob to this stuff, but yeah ^ this. Rod bolt failure at your first DE is probably SO uncommon. If it helps at all, I'm still really glad I DE'd the car (if you haven't then you have yet to really experience your car) and I'm far from financially in a position where a failure was no big deal for me. It was a huge deal. I financed a 14 year old Porsche (still making payments) and I spent about 5 months figuring out how I was going to pay for the repair that cost more than the car. STILL, no regrets. Could catastrophic failure happen at a DE...? Sure. It could also just have easily happened to me taking the on ramp and trying to get to highway speed. I plan to DE again as soon as I can (thus the reason I chose full rebuild vs say RND crate - more control over the internals).

Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist. Maybe my career choice has taught me you can't live your life in fear of the unknown and what you cannot control. But go DE your car as much as you want.

Be smart - change the oil after DE events. Maybe do oil analysis (I'm thinking about that). Change your brake fluid at least once a season and use one with a high wet boiling point like SRF. Consider what you can do to prevent oil starvation when you start getting good (I'm a long way out). Get to know the PCA folks who regularly track their cars and talk to them about what makes sense. Even ask them for help on routine maintenance if you want to do it yourself. One of the best pieces of advice I got from PCA folks when my engine blew was "Go talk to that guy Travis over there - he's a genius mechanic with these cars" - he was ultimately the guy I chose to do my rebuild. If you're not mechanic enough to do your own work, use your resources to find someone who is. I picked a guy who builds cars for endurance races for a reason - if you build cars to handle 8 or 24hrs of track pounding, you can probably build a reliable DE car Read a lot (Rennlist anyone?) but be prepared to sift for the gems amongst the dirt. Don't let negatives get you down... these cars are not about negatives. Enjoy your car!

mp2day

I chose the 1/2 qt sump add with the X51 style baffle... ground clearance could be an issue. And IMHO, track is MUCH safer than backroads! Track - you've got a coach who knows the track AND your car... you've got a really REALLY good road surface... you've got no surprises coming the other way in your line at a corner... and you're just as likely to have a mechanical failure off track as on under similar circumstances but with many less resources at hand (I had a pro mechanic and a tow truck within minutes, a tow to a shop, and a ride home)

Kris Murphy

I blew my car up on the track. Rod Bolt stretched. It was 100% my fault. Shifted from 4th to 1st while doing 100.

I have been tracking cars for 8 years. Started in a Miata, two e36 M3s and now the 996. Blew the car up at the last event of the season last year. The car had 117K miles on it and was a very well maintained track/daily driver for the previous 10 years before I bought it. Pretty much bone stock other than a FVD deep oil pan/baffle and exhaust. Original IMS, clutch and flywheel.

I know that if I had not blown it up, it would still be going. In the off season, I purchased a salvaged 911, and did the transplant.

This is not to scare you, but things can and do go bad on the track. If you cannot stomach a large expense due to a failure, wall, or other issue, I suggest starting in something cheaper, and work your way up to the 911.

I think I spent the same amount of money on all of the little things I replaced on the new 911 motor as I spent buying my Miata. I hope to always have a track car, but I will never have a track car that will make me feel pain if something goes wrong. Yes it sucked blowing up the motor, but it did not hurt (other than my pride).

I've seen too many people go out on the track with a $50K+ car that they still have a loan, and either blow it up, or crash it without insurance. That's not a chance I am willing to take, and it's my advice for others to avoid a situation like that too.

dgi 07

Adjusted my statement

Nickshu

Well stated...as a former owner of a track-only car myself I can attest you should never take anything to the track that you are not prepared to walk away from. If you go 4 off and hit something your insurance will not cover you, no matter how much you tell them it was not "racing". If you hit something on the street at least they would cover you.


While doing a PCA DE day (or similar) your risk is probably pretty low, anything can happen like a missed shift and such. A missed shift, or oil starvation, or other mechanical stuff could happen off or on track and your insurance would not help you there either way.