Intro and Dismay...
05-12-2017, 03:20 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
PPI by Power Tech in NJ. I live in CT but bought car about 1.5 hour away in NJ so had to use someone local. They said the car was "healthy" overall..
I purchased car from a dealer in NJ. They sell all sorts of cars and have a pretty nice shop. They claim to be a "Porsche specialist shop" as well and set up cars for racing, restoring, etc. Judging from reviews and the customer cars there, I felt pretty good. BUT I will giving them a call soon to go over this as it seems like it could have been present at time of purchase and not disclosed. I have no idea if this failure occurs at a single start-up/drive, or if it develops over time.
I actually contacted the real previous owner because I had his # from the service records. He traded the car into Porsche last summer and bought a Cayenne for his growing family - and then a Cayman for himself. He said that he had higher-than-expected oil consumption and had it checked out but local shops said it was "in spec". Without any other symptoms he had nothing to go on. But when I got the car things deteriorated pretty quickly from there. Doesn't sound to me like he dumped the car at fist sign of trouble, he's been inquisitive about his old beloved car. He lives in CT as well so maybe he'll get to see it again if all goes well..
I changed oil soon after purchase and cut open the existing oil filter and did not see any examples of metal particulate at that time.
I purchased car from a dealer in NJ. They sell all sorts of cars and have a pretty nice shop. They claim to be a "Porsche specialist shop" as well and set up cars for racing, restoring, etc. Judging from reviews and the customer cars there, I felt pretty good. BUT I will giving them a call soon to go over this as it seems like it could have been present at time of purchase and not disclosed. I have no idea if this failure occurs at a single start-up/drive, or if it develops over time.
I actually contacted the real previous owner because I had his # from the service records. He traded the car into Porsche last summer and bought a Cayenne for his growing family - and then a Cayman for himself. He said that he had higher-than-expected oil consumption and had it checked out but local shops said it was "in spec". Without any other symptoms he had nothing to go on. But when I got the car things deteriorated pretty quickly from there. Doesn't sound to me like he dumped the car at fist sign of trouble, he's been inquisitive about his old beloved car. He lives in CT as well so maybe he'll get to see it again if all goes well..
I changed oil soon after purchase and cut open the existing oil filter and did not see any examples of metal particulate at that time.
05-12-2017, 03:47 PM
#47
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is true - the area is not cheap for these cars unfortunately. I was pushing for about $1-2k lower, but it was from a dealer who has less flexibility to budge on price understandably. Hopefully they are able to work with me on some level to justify the higher costs. We shall see.
05-12-2017, 03:51 PM
#48
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got it. She's a beautiful car, best of luck. If you decide to keep the existing engine, other things to address are generally RMS (if not done with the IMS prior), water pump, AOS, coolant expansion tank. I think those are all the usual suspects. If you don't DIY, you might want to proactively replace the engine mounts and gear box oil (if not done before).
05-12-2017, 04:26 PM
#49
That sucks big time. Sorry to hear that. Hope the dealer will offer some help (likely wishful thinking though).
What you do next depends on if you love the car. If you love it and plan to keep it for a long time, expect to invest $20-$25k to get the engine rebuilt. If not, sell it "as is" for $7~8k I would think with that mileage. It just doesn't make much sense to fix it and then flip it financially. You will only be break even.
For more info on rebuild, see this thread where I rebuilt a 3.6 to 3.8 using the LN nickies.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...wn-engine.html
RND only provides stock displacement I believe but you should check with them. If you need to rebuild it with LN nickies, you need a good m96/97 engine builder. You should also check with Jake Raby (Flat 6 innovations) for options.
The LN $4,600 is only for parts (and machining obviously) but the good thing is you can increase the displacement to 3.8L or even 4.0L.
What you do next depends on if you love the car. If you love it and plan to keep it for a long time, expect to invest $20-$25k to get the engine rebuilt. If not, sell it "as is" for $7~8k I would think with that mileage. It just doesn't make much sense to fix it and then flip it financially. You will only be break even.
For more info on rebuild, see this thread where I rebuilt a 3.6 to 3.8 using the LN nickies.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...wn-engine.html
RND only provides stock displacement I believe but you should check with them. If you need to rebuild it with LN nickies, you need a good m96/97 engine builder. You should also check with Jake Raby (Flat 6 innovations) for options.
The LN $4,600 is only for parts (and machining obviously) but the good thing is you can increase the displacement to 3.8L or even 4.0L.
05-12-2017, 04:29 PM
#50
Instructor
This is what I was leaning towards if the price is right. Would likely do IMS at the same time. Anything else absolutely worth fixing "while he's in there"?
Also, anyone know if the cost for Nickies on LN Engineering website ($4,600) includes the labor of installing, or is that just for the parts?
Also, anyone know if the cost for Nickies on LN Engineering website ($4,600) includes the labor of installing, or is that just for the parts?
05-12-2017, 04:59 PM
#51
like I said - you (or your mechanic ) disassemble the engine and send the cases to LNE. They send the cases back with their cylinders and a new set of pistons. that's what you get for $4600. you have to then re assemble.
05-12-2017, 05:13 PM
#52
it will add to your costs but go with:
-APR bolts inside the engine
-LNE billet IMS paddle
-LNE oil Hex Drive
-LNE rod and crankshaft bearings
ANY hose that looks old, brittle, or not right- replace it!
05-12-2017, 08:07 PM
#53
Race Car
Sorry to hear the bad news that sucks 
all of those choices will get your 996 back up ave running again and I'd definitely be having a conversation with that dealership.
all of those choices will get your 996 back up ave running again and I'd definitely be having a conversation with that dealership.
05-25-2017, 03:09 PM
#54
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update #3
I've been doing as much research as possible and going over options with my Indy. This is what I have to work with so far.
The cheapest option would be to go with an OEM Porsche short block + 100% rebuilt heads. Throw in the labor, some misc auxiliary items (e.g. AOS, pulleys, etc.), and a new clutch I'm at ~$14k out the door. Also gets me back on the road in a few weeks. My understanding is that this short block is pretty much new, manufactured within the past few years. It's a 996 motor, but built to the latest "spec" which all I can discern about that is the larger single row, non-serviceable IMS from the 997 motors. My obvious discomfort here is that the forums makes it sound like every M96/M97 motor will go bad with scoring at any time. I've also heard that the 997 motors tend to be even more susceptible to this problem. Not sure why. Maybe the additional power of those engines as I thought they were identical liners/clearances.
My original hope would be to do this and change the oil often and never drive the damn thing in the cold and hope for the best. I bought this car on hearing many stories of high mileage ownership. Car would only be driven ~7k miles a year (no racing), so if it went at 75k again, I'd at least own it for a decade before cutting my losses at that point.
The Nickies options when you go ahead and add up all of the bearings, bolts, additional labor, etc. to get it all back together is closer to $18-19k, which is quickly approaching FSI pricing, which in that case I'd likely just use Jake. These are obviously considered better options (because Nickies) but the price point is probably more than I love the car after so little time. 14k is pushing my sanity right now.
The latest option I am discussing with my Indy is a motor from MB Motorsports. Hard to find a straight answer about MB here, but the engines sound good and are a good price. Probably would be about the same price as an OEM shortblock in the end, but should have "superior" cylinder liners and IMS bearing. Any thoughts or opinions on this option?
I've been doing as much research as possible and going over options with my Indy. This is what I have to work with so far.
The cheapest option would be to go with an OEM Porsche short block + 100% rebuilt heads. Throw in the labor, some misc auxiliary items (e.g. AOS, pulleys, etc.), and a new clutch I'm at ~$14k out the door. Also gets me back on the road in a few weeks. My understanding is that this short block is pretty much new, manufactured within the past few years. It's a 996 motor, but built to the latest "spec" which all I can discern about that is the larger single row, non-serviceable IMS from the 997 motors. My obvious discomfort here is that the forums makes it sound like every M96/M97 motor will go bad with scoring at any time. I've also heard that the 997 motors tend to be even more susceptible to this problem. Not sure why. Maybe the additional power of those engines as I thought they were identical liners/clearances.
My original hope would be to do this and change the oil often and never drive the damn thing in the cold and hope for the best. I bought this car on hearing many stories of high mileage ownership. Car would only be driven ~7k miles a year (no racing), so if it went at 75k again, I'd at least own it for a decade before cutting my losses at that point.
The Nickies options when you go ahead and add up all of the bearings, bolts, additional labor, etc. to get it all back together is closer to $18-19k, which is quickly approaching FSI pricing, which in that case I'd likely just use Jake. These are obviously considered better options (because Nickies) but the price point is probably more than I love the car after so little time. 14k is pushing my sanity right now.
The latest option I am discussing with my Indy is a motor from MB Motorsports. Hard to find a straight answer about MB here, but the engines sound good and are a good price. Probably would be about the same price as an OEM shortblock in the end, but should have "superior" cylinder liners and IMS bearing. Any thoughts or opinions on this option?
05-25-2017, 03:19 PM
#55
Why not go with an MB motorsports rebuild? If I were in the market he would get my money hands down. A few Canadian's chat about his work and his engines 
You will hear a bunch of BS on here about Martin and his company but at the end of the day they build a SOLID reliable engine for a hell of a lot less than some of the holier than thou builders that frequent here.
You will hear a bunch of BS on here about Martin and his company but at the end of the day they build a SOLID reliable engine for a hell of a lot less than some of the holier than thou builders that frequent here.
05-25-2017, 03:32 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Based on how you plan to drive it, I'd recommend going with the OEM and $14k. Those high mileage ownership stories are still true...and those are OEM motors. Yours is one of the few that broke. Its always nice to own a Picasso...but not necessary to have a happy life. FSI falls into the same category. If you've got the money and want to spend it, why not? If the FSI cost makes you pucker a little, stay with OEM.
There are days driving in LA traffic (and considering the cost of repairs) I wonder why I even bother to have a 911...I start looking at becoming a two GTI family. Or maybe find a really really nice Mk 1 or Mk 2 generation. But then I get in the Porsche and it just feels so good. And then I start fantasizing about an overpriced 993 or 964 and getting back to real basics. But the truth is that the 996 is the best "worst case Porsche" you can buy for the money.
You've got a very nice car. It bit you. Keep it, give it a new motor, and enjoy it even more in five or six years as you watch the craziness of modern cars take all the pleasure out of driving.
There are days driving in LA traffic (and considering the cost of repairs) I wonder why I even bother to have a 911...I start looking at becoming a two GTI family. Or maybe find a really really nice Mk 1 or Mk 2 generation. But then I get in the Porsche and it just feels so good. And then I start fantasizing about an overpriced 993 or 964 and getting back to real basics. But the truth is that the 996 is the best "worst case Porsche" you can buy for the money.
You've got a very nice car. It bit you. Keep it, give it a new motor, and enjoy it even more in five or six years as you watch the craziness of modern cars take all the pleasure out of driving.
05-25-2017, 04:32 PM
#57
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turbojamie - they are a leading contender at the moment. Trying to find out how many people have actually used him and their short/long term results is difficult on here, or otherwise. I'm also determining the logistics of this route, shipping car to FL from CT or shipping engine(s) back and forth and having local shop install motor. Might save a little money with the latter route.
johnireland - with any option I won't be itching to track the car, I just want a running vehicle that's fun to drive. The OEM has a better warranty than anyone at 2 years unlimited miles. No great, but still gives me at least 2 years with the car without losing too much sleep. The OEM option is still vary high on my list and takes out some logistics variables with MB. Wondering if for future resale though that a motor with different sleeves and a better IMS will make it more valuable to certain people down the road. I'm not doing any of this for immediate resale, I'll own the car for a long time regardless. But there is usually a time when it makes sense to move on and it would be nice to get the most return if possible.
Decisions, decisions...
johnireland - with any option I won't be itching to track the car, I just want a running vehicle that's fun to drive. The OEM has a better warranty than anyone at 2 years unlimited miles. No great, but still gives me at least 2 years with the car without losing too much sleep. The OEM option is still vary high on my list and takes out some logistics variables with MB. Wondering if for future resale though that a motor with different sleeves and a better IMS will make it more valuable to certain people down the road. I'm not doing any of this for immediate resale, I'll own the car for a long time regardless. But there is usually a time when it makes sense to move on and it would be nice to get the most return if possible.
Decisions, decisions...
05-25-2017, 09:34 PM
#58
The third option is to use a $40 Amazon manometer to verify the crankcase vacuum so you are not guessing whether the AOS is bad and you're not pouring quarts of oil into your cats (and subsequently the sky). See Ashai's DIY. Then proceed because you'll KNOW whether it's good or bad.
The spec on vacuum is in inches of water, but use motor oil as the indicator fluid instead of water, so just in case there is really high vacuum and it sucks the indicator fluid into the crankcase, you're not mixing water and oil. You just have to scale the reading down since oil is less dense than water and will displace more than water. Oil density is around 0.85 g/cc, whereas water is 1 g/cc, so whatever number of inches you measure in oil, multiply by 0.85 to get inches of water.
05-25-2017, 10:33 PM
#60
Turbojamie - they are a leading contender at the moment. Trying to find out how many people have actually used him and their short/long term results is difficult on here, or otherwise. I'm also determining the logistics of this route, shipping car to FL from CT or shipping engine(s) back and forth and having local shop install motor. Might save a little money with the latter route.
johnireland - with any option I won't be itching to track the car, I just want a running vehicle that's fun to drive. The OEM has a better warranty than anyone at 2 years unlimited miles. No great, but still gives me at least 2 years with the car without losing too much sleep. The OEM option is still vary high on my list and takes out some logistics variables with MB. Wondering if for future resale though that a motor with different sleeves and a better IMS will make it more valuable to certain people down the road. I'm not doing any of this for immediate resale, I'll own the car for a long time regardless. But there is usually a time when it makes sense to move on and it would be nice to get the most return if possible.
Decisions, decisions...
johnireland - with any option I won't be itching to track the car, I just want a running vehicle that's fun to drive. The OEM has a better warranty than anyone at 2 years unlimited miles. No great, but still gives me at least 2 years with the car without losing too much sleep. The OEM option is still vary high on my list and takes out some logistics variables with MB. Wondering if for future resale though that a motor with different sleeves and a better IMS will make it more valuable to certain people down the road. I'm not doing any of this for immediate resale, I'll own the car for a long time regardless. But there is usually a time when it makes sense to move on and it would be nice to get the most return if possible.
Decisions, decisions...
