Mike Murphy

Im with you guys, except I really don't see where these cars are depreciating any further.

fpena944

Well they can only go so low. I mean they still need to stay above the cost of a used Boxster so just by virtue of that and the Porsche name there's a bottom limit.

sugarwood

Only 25% of cars are leased.

As for brands vs lease rates,
Porsche has identical lease ratio as Honda
BMW has identical lease ratio as Lexus

johnireland

My sources say that people don't want to take the depreciation hit on a $100,000 dollar car that they are going to trade back in within 3 years for the next model. The purchase makes no sense to them. They modern Porsche buyer keeps the miles well below the lease limits and most new Porsche 911s will never see a 30k service from the first owner.

robert090

I agree here, it is all about the demand and supply. We should be wise in choosing our car, be it buying or leasing new one.

AWDGuy

my 02 C4S has a valued of $16 000 on the used vehicle information package (UVIP) from ontario.

I wish I paid $16k. lol

ZuffenZeus

Yea, I feel ya! For some reason, the 2002 C4S is depreciating more on a steady decline, but still a good used one has an average retail value of $25,000. What does that mean for high mileage p-cars?... it means you're looking at around $17,500 retail on average... which also means, if you trade it in, you're going to see dealer offers around $12,000. Big OUCH!!! If you don't like to take that kind of hit on resell, then either auction it off on eBay or BAT, or try your hand at Craigslist. Personally, Craigslist is probably one of the most frustrating methods of selling a car. Lots of tire kickers wanting to test drive your car with no intention of purchasing it.

Overall, as 996 owners, we have to keep things in perspective. Porsche sold a butt-load of these cars during the 996 era. Porsche has said in spite of the criticism, the 996 was one of the best selling 911 cars ever. That's great for Porsche but bad for the collectors market. However, most people that buy these cars are not like the Ferrari crowd that may drive them only a few times a year and keep them locked up in a temperature/humidity controlled warehouses. Modern Porsche owners drive the hell out of their cars which means only the concours grade, limited versions (e.g. GT3RS) are going to appreciate in the near future. But don't be fooled, if you have the intention to make some profit down the road, now is the time to buy the 996.

I give you a personal example. When I was a kid living in Atlanta, my father's neighbor bought a beautiful black 1976 Carrera Turbo for about (if I remember correctly), $30,000. That was an insane amount money for a car in the 70s'. After about a year, he offered to sell it to my father for just $14,000. My father being a more practical car guy, thought that was too much to pay for even a used sports car and so he made the decision to pass on the deal. Today, those cars sell consistently at auction for well over a $150,000.

Bash Hat

But isn't a lease just exactly that? You're paying for the depreciation with your monthly lease payment. I'd imagine a new 911 lease payment would be somewhere north of $1000/month. So you'd pay $36k over the life of the lease plus the $5k or so initial down payment. The same as buying new and taking a $40k (or less) hit if selling after 3 years. There's no way a dealer is losing money on a lease. A buyer would take less of a hit by purchasing over leasing a car.

Oregoncoaststi

I tend to agree with this statement, with a lease it's like an expensive 3 year test drive , option to purchase after, but you have already paid the depreciation, and yes the dealer never loses money, ever

johnireland

Using your numbers...let's imagine a $100000 new 911. plus t & l at 10% and you are at $110k.

Put $22000 down and you have a balance of $88,000. Imagine you got that balance from Porsche Credit at 0% for 60 months...that comes to $1466 per month. Do that for 36 months (before you trade the car in) and you've spent $52800 plus the $20k down...and after 36 months you're into the car for $72800....and with $20k cash up front.

Now your lease is $5k to get the car and I'm going to figure a lease payment including sales tax of $1375 (more than you estimated). Now that comes to $54,500 in 36 months...that is $18300 less than the purchase and it required 75% less at the drive off.

If you are keeping a car for 36 months, leasing is by far a better way to go, and that is why so many do.

Cosmo Kramer

Shows how off those UVIP's are my 2002 C2 Cabriolet was valued at 19k wholesale!

Mike Murphy

Correct - leasing is betting on what the depreciation will be. It's a numbers game. That's said, in rare cases, it might make sense to purchase instead of lease. For cars that have higher than normal residual value.

sugarwood

This is a very incomplete analysis of leasing. It only looks at monthly payments.
It's like saying owning a house with a $1200 mortgage is worse than renting a house for $1100.
Guess what, when you retire, you get to sell that $700k house and make a lot of that money back.

You totally ignored the fact that when you're making payments on a purchased car, you're building equity in the car.

At 0%, every dollar you pay goes towards equity. That entire $72k you've spent is still 100% your equity.
The $54k spent leasing is 100% lost money as you do not own the asset.

You should really edit your hypothetical to factor in what the car is worth upon sale at 3 years old.
You need to consider what the $110k car is worth after 3 years, and factor in that you have $72k of equity in the car, b/c when you sell it, the net proceeds are yours.

There is no free lunch, and Porsche does not subsidize leases. You are not sidestepping depreciation by leasing. It is baked into the lease (rental) terms.

808Bill

And how much did you put down on that $700K house to get your payments to $1200.00

Bash Hat

You're missing one important detail. Resale value. Just for ****z and giggles I priced out a base model 911 lease. $1199/month with $7199 down. After 3 years you will have paid a total of $50,363. KBB values a 2015 911 (currently 3 yrs old) at $73,367. Assuming I buy with $0 down and have a 3 yr loan, I pay $2932/month or a total of $105,552. I sell the car for $73,367 after 3 years then the car cost me $32,185 to own for the 3 years. By buying I am $18,178 better off. And that's assuming turning in the lease with no over mileage or damage charges.

There's a reason dealers love leases. They make more $$$ on them.

To clarify, I used a base 911 price of $92,500 with 9% sales tax and 3% int rate.