Searching for first Porsche
03-05-2017, 12:58 PM
#1
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Searching for first Porsche
Long time lurker first time poster here. What a great forum!
Since I was a kid, I've always wanted a 911. Now I'm in a position to get one as a weekend fun car...not a new one unfortunately, but have been looking for a nice example for a while. Since I seem to have missed the $25K nice shape 964's about 10 years back, I've focused on the 996.
I've read all about the IMS and RMS bearings, cylinder scoring, dodgy this and that, etc...but am pretty resolved on this series. I'm looking at a few here in the Dallas area. Two of them, specifically, at a well-known Porsche specialist in the area - both 2002 models. Neither has had the IMS replaced. Both are in the 50K mi area. The shop folks seem to know their stuff, and they don't see the rationale behind replacing them with this mileage already behind them...particularly since they've inspected them already and "brought them up to speed" service-wise. They'd of course be happy to change it at my expense, but they don't recommend it. Their service area looks like an operating room. One of the cars is cosmetically very nice, the other a little chippy.
I'm not sold on either one at this point, but just thought I'd introduce myself as I'll surely be relying on everyone here when I find the "right" one for me, wherever that one reveals itself. I'm looking for a coupe 6 spd. Carrera. Although I have zero experience with these cars, I have some DIY competence on servicing my own vehicles. I've been turning my own wrench on VW's for years.... brakes, A/C, sensors, oil/filters, regulators, etc. As long as it doesn't involve opening up the engine, I've probably tackled it.... hence the little part in the back of my mind regarding the IMS stuff.
So hello everyone, and thank you again for this forum!
-Bill
Since I was a kid, I've always wanted a 911. Now I'm in a position to get one as a weekend fun car...not a new one unfortunately, but have been looking for a nice example for a while. Since I seem to have missed the $25K nice shape 964's about 10 years back, I've focused on the 996.
I've read all about the IMS and RMS bearings, cylinder scoring, dodgy this and that, etc...but am pretty resolved on this series. I'm looking at a few here in the Dallas area. Two of them, specifically, at a well-known Porsche specialist in the area - both 2002 models. Neither has had the IMS replaced. Both are in the 50K mi area. The shop folks seem to know their stuff, and they don't see the rationale behind replacing them with this mileage already behind them...particularly since they've inspected them already and "brought them up to speed" service-wise. They'd of course be happy to change it at my expense, but they don't recommend it. Their service area looks like an operating room. One of the cars is cosmetically very nice, the other a little chippy.
I'm not sold on either one at this point, but just thought I'd introduce myself as I'll surely be relying on everyone here when I find the "right" one for me, wherever that one reveals itself. I'm looking for a coupe 6 spd. Carrera. Although I have zero experience with these cars, I have some DIY competence on servicing my own vehicles. I've been turning my own wrench on VW's for years.... brakes, A/C, sensors, oil/filters, regulators, etc. As long as it doesn't involve opening up the engine, I've probably tackled it.... hence the little part in the back of my mind regarding the IMS stuff.
So hello everyone, and thank you again for this forum!
-Bill
03-05-2017, 01:40 PM
#2
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Hey Bill, welcome! You come from very much the same background as myself; have been watching 911's to buy for 10 years, this fall decided it was time. Missed the boat on 964/993 but when looking again at the 996 it became more and more appealing. Watched the 928 as well (love that car!) but do want a car I can daily drive during summer and take on a trip every now and then and for that a 30 year old is a bit old.
I also drove a couple of 997's but weirdly I preferred the 996 with more classic interior. I in the end chose an early 01-1998 C2 with a sport setup (lowered suspension, LSD, sportseats etc) and a classic color (silver with black leather interior). Reason? Everybody has been trashing early 996's and with that a good one becomes hard to find.
Alternative is a C4S but over here low milage ones are around 40k$ or above and I came to like the idea of a lightest C2 with a nice revving 3.4 in the back.
IMS or not is something you have to consider in light of what your intention with the car is IMHO....If you want to drive that car for 5+ years I would go with the recommendation of LN Engineering and ensure you swap the IMS when changing the clutch. If you only want to drive it 2-3 years max you can take the chance and probably are better off if you ensure the car will get a good maintenance on the engine (RMS OK or swapped, replace waterpump if required, clean the front radiators and ensure they afterwards are cleaned regularly, new AOS and any other). I don't see value in the IMS "Solution" until 996's value 50k+. You'd better spend your money elsewhere first.
Make sure you find a good indy in your neighborhood and if not, go look elsewhere but do find it. This is not your regular VW and I think good maintenance is key. That does not mean you cannot work yourself on the car but there is a lot of learning I believe.
There are tons of 996's around so don't be in a hurry and buy exactly what you are looking for. Have a good PPI done and have money available to give it a good first service. The car should come with ample records; preferably a lifetime (at least the service booklet with regular maintenance) and with the invoices of last 5 years so you know what has been done.
The car I bought had full service records for the past 19 years and 7 years of invoices. Also, during the PPI the mechanic will see if maintenance was done with care or by some idiots.
Have fun finding your car!
I also drove a couple of 997's but weirdly I preferred the 996 with more classic interior. I in the end chose an early 01-1998 C2 with a sport setup (lowered suspension, LSD, sportseats etc) and a classic color (silver with black leather interior). Reason? Everybody has been trashing early 996's and with that a good one becomes hard to find.
Alternative is a C4S but over here low milage ones are around 40k$ or above and I came to like the idea of a lightest C2 with a nice revving 3.4 in the back.
IMS or not is something you have to consider in light of what your intention with the car is IMHO....If you want to drive that car for 5+ years I would go with the recommendation of LN Engineering and ensure you swap the IMS when changing the clutch. If you only want to drive it 2-3 years max you can take the chance and probably are better off if you ensure the car will get a good maintenance on the engine (RMS OK or swapped, replace waterpump if required, clean the front radiators and ensure they afterwards are cleaned regularly, new AOS and any other). I don't see value in the IMS "Solution" until 996's value 50k+. You'd better spend your money elsewhere first.
Make sure you find a good indy in your neighborhood and if not, go look elsewhere but do find it. This is not your regular VW and I think good maintenance is key. That does not mean you cannot work yourself on the car but there is a lot of learning I believe.
There are tons of 996's around so don't be in a hurry and buy exactly what you are looking for. Have a good PPI done and have money available to give it a good first service. The car should come with ample records; preferably a lifetime (at least the service booklet with regular maintenance) and with the invoices of last 5 years so you know what has been done.
The car I bought had full service records for the past 19 years and 7 years of invoices. Also, during the PPI the mechanic will see if maintenance was done with care or by some idiots.
Have fun finding your car!
03-05-2017, 01:44 PM
#3
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Bill, best of luck with the hunt, that is part of the fun. Honestly, I'm not a mechanic, but these 996's are easy to work on IMO. Much easier than the other Germans I've had (Multiple Audi's, a MB, BMW and a Mini) for what it's worth. Also the quality of materials seem better, could just be the Porsche 'tax' justification since parts are more, sometimes for no good reason, aside from the brand.
03-05-2017, 02:04 PM
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Welcome! I have a 2002 C2 Cabrio with just over 61k miles and have not done, or plan to do, the IMSB. If for some reason it decides to act up and ruin the engine, than I will take my car to Renegade Motors here in Vegas and have them throw in an LS V8. Good luck and enjoy the hunt!
03-05-2017, 02:28 PM
#5
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I'm in the DFW area. Picked up a 99 C2 AeroSport last Nov. It might take a while, but find what you really want with your splurge money. Get the color, options, and mileage you want.
As for the IMS, I think it's a decision that everyone must make. If you are looking at a low mileage 01-05, those seem to be the one's that are most affected by IMS failures. But don't take that as any kind of gospel. The cars that have been documented with LN bearing change come up once in a while, but they always command premium money, so take that into account. As for the shop not recommending replacement at this mileage, I think they are trying to sell you a car, or a service job. You can bet if they had one for sale with the IMS already done, they would change their comments appropriately.
As for the IMS, I think it's a decision that everyone must make. If you are looking at a low mileage 01-05, those seem to be the one's that are most affected by IMS failures. But don't take that as any kind of gospel. The cars that have been documented with LN bearing change come up once in a while, but they always command premium money, so take that into account. As for the shop not recommending replacement at this mileage, I think they are trying to sell you a car, or a service job. You can bet if they had one for sale with the IMS already done, they would change their comments appropriately.