HallEYA

Thanks gnat. IMS/RMS was done as part of the sale at 41,xxx (seller had leverage with Town Motor, as he was buying a 2014 911 while concurrently selling his 2002 to me).

Helpful post. Sounds like it's going to be roller time.

HallEYA

Found the paperwork. IMS repair was coded as "internal" rericing and description (with only number coding of 225.40.18). Will chase that up today. Also spoke Body Motion who had some interesting potential solutions: talking with their rebuild guy Mike later this AM.

RngTrtl

There is always the LS Renegade conversion...

Flat6 Innovations

Please don't use the term "IMS Solution" so loosely. There's only one IMS Solution, and thats the name of a product... I'll guarantee that an "IMS Solution" didn't fail.

Sure an IMS Bearing failure can be overcome... I am doing it today. It'll go back in the car tomorrow.

jumper5836

^not sure about that, what if the oil feed gets blocked

Flat6 Innovations

Want to bet?
I have a test engine with almost 4K miles on it without even having the oil feed line attached.

I have a video of that engine turning 6K RPM (from under the engine) with the oil feed line disconnected, and oil dripping from the IMS Solution flange.

Been there done that, simply to dispel the sewage being spread by those that grasp at straws to find anything wrong with the IMS Solution design.

Between the 4,000 series aluminum bushing, and the DLC coated, heat treated IMS Solution flange, the unit needs very little oil to survive. As I have pushed this further and further, I have learned more and more.

Also, what's going to "block the oil passage"? It's fed from the just filtered oil at the oil filter adaptor. Anything that blocks the oil feed also blocks all the oil to the rest of the engine!

The IMS Solution needs less oil than the main or rod bearings within the engine.

So, if this were to happen it would be collateral damage from something else failing, then the problem would not be the IMS Solution anyway, and any damage to it would be resultant from something else.

The crankshaft will seize and all 6 rod bearings will fail, well before the IMS Solution dies due to oil starvation. Been there, done that, and wasted a 7,000 dollar engine to prove it. I have 1/4 of my life invested in this product development (literally) and if can be done, I have done it.

Triple Black

Very sorry to hear. Sounds a lot like my story, except mine lasted about 20K miles. My advice is move on quickly. Don't invest any more time or $$ on an engine that's now toast. Look for a replacement engine or cut your losses and move on. I went the replacement route with an upgraded crate engine (used, with about 10K kilometers) and couldn't be happier with it.

garrett376

Now that's how to put that one to rest! Well done!

HallEYA

Please note I also added the below to my OP.

UPDATE on 10/19/2016: Contacted Town Motor re: IMS, to clarify the procedure. While reading the below, please note that I have, in writing, confirmation that a complete IMS retrofit was going to be done (and that I never would have purchased the car without it). Full reply is quoted below. Short version - IMS retrofit was NOT done, so mine is just your standard 996 catastrophic engine failure. Thanks to many members for the advice/encouragement, and especially Jake Raby, who I spoke with at length yesterday about options from here.


Email from Town Motors of Englewood:

HallEYA,
What was quoted at the time of the PPI was the RMS/IMS seals. We do not do aftermarket bearing only replace with a factory bearing/shaft. Which requires tearing the motor completely down to the crank . after reviewing your invoice it shows only the replacement IMS /RMS seals and there is no parts or labor referring to a retrofit kit. Our RMS/IMS kit is what we refer to it as seals for Rear main and intermediate shaft seals. It seems you are under the impression we replaced the IMS bearing what we actually recommended and replaced was the rear main seal and the intermediate bearing cover seal and the 3 bolts that secure it to the engine.

jhbrennan

Well that's horrible news. Unfortunately buyers can get confused with all the acronyms used and I often see and hear reference to IMS and folks automatically think "intermediate shaft bearing" when in fact the reference may be to the 'intermediate shaft seal". You have to be very clear in what you're asking to be done and then confirming what was actually done. Sounds like you have documentation that dealer was going to do IMSB replacement when in fact all they did was replace the seal. If they had replaced the bearing you would have seen an expensive part cost for the bearing on the invoice - labor for replacing the seal or replacing the bearing is about the same so the parts cost would have been an indication of what was done or in this case not done. Hope your conversations with Raby lead to a satisfactory resolution. Good luck.

gnat

Ouch that sucks on multiple fronts

Jake will steer you right, but unless he's buying the roller for a customer his options will be the polar opposite of not wanting to put more money into it

Good luck whichever way you decide to go from here. Really sorry you're having to go through it.

Flat6 Innovations

This happens all the time. An IMS Bearing flange SEAL is changed/ updated (often as a recall, or under warranty) and people believe that the IMS retrofit has been carried out.

Sad situation. Had better communication occurred, this failure would have been avoided by utilizing some version of IMS Retrofit.

Water under the bridge now... Pick up the pieces and make it better than it ever was. Thats all you can do.

ewc

Wow, that's terrible news, sorry to hear. Very confusing information from the dealer. I hope they do you right and give you a great deal on a new car.

Goes to show that you can never trust a dealer. I similarly learned the hard way when I purchased my 2004 C4S from a local Porsche dealer and had them replace my IMS bearing with an "LN bearing" as a PM. Turns out the dealer used an RND roller bearing (also sold by LN, but not made by LN). Admittedly, my communication was not as clear as I should have been, but I had no idea at the time that LN sold other types of bearings.

Although the dealer probably shaved a few bucks using the RND, at least they changed the bearing on mine. Had I delved deeper into these forums pre-purchase, I would have sent the car to a local LN certified installer to have them do the work. Oh well, live, learn, and pray for a healthy M96.

ZuffenZeus

So basically what we have here is a 2002 Porsche C4S with only 52,000 miles that experienced catastrophic engine failure with an original OEM IMS bearing. OUCH! And, the OP had a written agreement to have the IMS retrofit installed as a part of the sale which wasn't done.... which meant... KABOOM!!! Double Dawg OUCH!!!!

OP, I'm sorry to hear this man. Nothing worse than having a car die right before you're about to sell it. I wish you had better news, but as Jake says it's best to pick up the pieces and make it better than it ever was... or just sell it off as a roller and take your losses... or, if you have in writing that the dealership agreed to carry out an IMS retrofit replacement and didn't do it, you should meet with the dealership's owner to give him an opportunity to make it right or seek out legal options.

Makes me wonder... Is the failure rate for the AWD C4S higher or about the same as RWD Carreras?

gnat

What did the dealer do wrong here? They quoted him for a specific service and then performed the agreed upon service. Maybe they should have made sure he was absolutely clear on what he was getting, but I'd be willing to bet that the SA had no real clue himself and just selected the service that appeared to best match what was being asked for.

It's well known that most Porsche (really any marque in my experience) dealers will not install non-OEM parts or deviate from factory service guidelines. It's widely known by those that have been around for awhile that you don't go to a dealer for a bearing swap.

It's unfortunate that the OP knew enough to ask about it, but not enough to understand what he really wanted versus what he was getting.

I think that is more the fault of the proverbial "us" though as there is so much paranoia and misinformation out there that it's nearly impossible for someone new to it all to get a clear understanding about it all in a reasonable amount of time.